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Featured I cried out to God last night

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Fallen Prophet

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    It's not about whether or not God likes it - it's about you - your state of mind.

    If you only go to Him when you are upset and angry and making demands - you aren't going to get much out of the experience.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It is not always as bad as it sounds, and I do get help from God sometimes but only when i cry out in anguish. I do not plan that, it just happens spontaneously. Then I get help. I don't know why silent prayer does not do the trick, maybe God is hard of hearing. :D No, it is more likely that God answers prayers when they are urgent, when He knows we are desperately in need of help, and maybe it is also that God wants is to connect our reaching out to Him with our getting help from Him to strengthen our faith.

    There is a great story that was told to me by another Baha'i that occurred back in the days when Baha'u'llah was alive. I cannot tell it like he did but I will try my best. A believer who knew and followed Baha'u'llah had reached the end of His rope and He got really angry at God and asked God how He would feel if the situation was reversed. Shortly thereafter Baha'u'llah came to this man and told Him that God had heard His cry, and shortly thereafter the man's troubles were completely removed... Such is the mercy of God.
     
    #102 Trailblazer, Mar 2, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I was not making demands, I was crying out for help, and that is the only time I get anything at all.
    What do you expect me to get out of the experience?
     
  4. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a miracle. Such never happened to me. maybe it did and I just didn't recognize it. Of late I've begun to suspect that there are Watchers in the spiritual world that help us out in truly impossible to extricate situations at times, not always.
     
  5. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    A God who holds the universe in the palm of his hand is not going to be that petty and capricious. "Oh, dear me! You never give me praise, you come to me when you want something! Boohoo! Nothing for you!" lol
     
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  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, the one true God is not needy, petty or capricious. That's the Bible God that people have created in their own image. :rolleyes: Below is God's REAL job description. :D

    “Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I would say what happened to that man who cried out to God asking God if He would like to trade places with him was kind of like what happened to Job, a modern-day Job. :D

    There are other stories of miracles that occurred in the days of Baha'u'llah that have been passed down by those who lived in those days.. One such story is a man who complained about not knowing what the afterlife is like, since that has been concealed by God. Baha'u'llah knows what it is like but He never revealed the full measure of its glory and He had His reasons... Anyhow, this man asked Baha'u'llah what the afterlife was like and Baha'u'llah refused to tell Him but since the man kept insisting Baha'u'llah finally conveyed to that man's mind what it was like. The next day the man committed suicide in his hurry to get there.

    Nothing that miraculous has happened to me in answer to my cries for help has been that miraculous, yet it has been recognizable as help I desperately needed. Sometimes God puts a thought in my head that allows me to take action I need to take or sends people my way to help me. Notably, this never used to happen to me in my 'fallen away from God' period. I constantly struggled to do it my way and I never knew what to do. I still have indecisiveness but I feel like I am being guided along now that I have opened the door back up to God.

    I definitely believe that there are those in the spiritual world watching over me because of what Baha'u'llah wrote, and there is no reason to think that these angels don't watch over others as well...

    “Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 139

    I also believe that true seekers will be guided. The following is an excerpt from the Tablet of the True Seeker.

    ““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings, pp. 266-267

    This is not something I understand but Baha'u'llah wrote that holy souls who reside in the spiritual world are like the leaven:

    "The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples. They are like unto leaven which leaveneth the world of being, and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Through them the clouds rain their bounty upon men, and the earth bringeth forth its fruits. All things must needs have a cause, a motive power, an animating principle. These souls and symbols of detachment have provided, and will continue to provide, the supreme moving impulse in the world of being.” Gleanings, p. 157
     
    #107 Trailblazer, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  8. capumetu

    capumetu Active Member

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    Jehovah provides for those who ask in sincerity. Strange though it may be, most people reject Him maam.
     
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    But one would drive themselves crazy thinking there's "must be" rather than is a answer to the Why question.

    Must-bes, everyone knows, etc arent stating facts. Life is completely uncrrtain. People wake up and don't even know if today is the day they'd die.

    I can see why answering questions help you. I find it, by default, realistic to accept there are no answers just beliefs and assumptions.

    I wonder how a person can be so indoctrinated in their religion there is no room and interest to leave the questions alone. That or take it for granted that their answers actually reflect just because of our experiences. In mental health, it's said we all have biases and emotions and experiences are not always true but we can't see that behind our confirmation bias. When we are indoctrinated in those views, they take for granted they can be wrong.

    Scary feeling
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I believe God has set me to help people. Please tell what help you need?
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Yes, God provides what we need, which is not always what we believe we need.
    Many people reject God but I do not think most people do.
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That's awfully nice of you and you are a true Christian in my eyes. It is according to my beliefs that the weak are to lean on the strong. I am strong in many ways but not always in faith. I get a lot of help form Christians in that regard because many Christians have strong faith. I have strong belief but that is not the same as strong faith.

    Most of my problems are situational, related to my life situation that cannot really be changed, at least not right now, and maybe never. Because of that life situation I have periods of time that are very difficult and then things calm down for a while, but not for long. I do not really want to share all the details on the forum but you can engage me in a Conversation of you want to. Several people have done that since I posted this thread.
     
  13. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    You think you’ve got problems?

    Yesterday 38 innocent Burmese were shot in cold blooded murder by their own military. My wife is Burmese and how do you think she feels? She prayed for Burma asking for help and next day 38 people are massacred!

    God sees and knows but He’s already given us the solution to this problem. What good will asking God to do something about it when the remedy involves us doing it.


    “The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government”


    The Secret of Divine Civilization
    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá

    Interestingly, Special UN envoy to Myanmar, Christine Schraner Burgener, had this to say regarding the massacre:


    Every tool available is needed now to stop this situation," Burgener said. "We need a unity of the international community, so it's up to the member states to take the right measures."


    She says almost word for word what Abdul-Baha has said and until that remedy is administered, all the prayers in the world is not going to change anything because what is required to change it is not prayers or God intervening but the world uniting against these oppressors.
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I know I have problems but I do not 'compare them' with all the problems the world is facing or think they are more serious.
    Is God so weak that He cannot handle my problems as well as those of others?
    If God cannot help people who have already exhausted their own efforts, why pretend He is everything that Baha'is say He is?
    I agree if you are referring to the serious problems that the world faces. Humanity has been given the solutions through the Revelation of Baha'u'llah and it is our responsibility to fix those problems.

    It might help if more people actually knew about Baha'u'llah, and who is to blame for the suffering if more people don't know?
    Look at how long ago the following letter was written.

    "There is so much suffering, such a great and desperate need for a true remedy and the Bahá’ís should realize their sacred obligation is to deliver the Message to their fellowmen at once, and on as large a scale as possible. If they fail to do so, they are really partly responsible for prolonging the agony of humanity."

    (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, December 18, 1943)
     
    #114 Trailblazer, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I fully agree. Tell that to the Baha'is who sit in prayer meetings and meet and meet and meet among themselves instead of teaching the Faith. :( The remedy cannot be administered until MORE PEOPLE know what that remedy is.

    There is an awareness of the problem, as is demonstrated in the following video, but the Baha'is have the solutions, yet the Baha'i Faith is still the world's best kept secret. The question is why.

     
  16. Fallen Prophet

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    Let's go over what you said in your OP,

    "Last night I was at the end of my rope so I cried out to God, or should I say I screamed at Him in abject anger and told Him I need help, so now I will find out if He comes through or not.

    This is you making a demand of God. You angrily yelled at God and asked Him for help and then decided to sit back and wait for that help. It was a demand.

    "Usually I just scream at God and call Him names, but this time I asked for help, so the ball is now in God’s court."

    You yell at God and call Him names then ask Him for help?

    I honestly don't think there is anything He can do for you if you act like that.

    Then the whole "ball is in His court" thing is just like asking after a sign.

    And the Lord said an adulterous generation asks after signs.

    "God can help me because He is All-Powerful, or He can just leave me standing at the side of the road. :("

    Or He is giving you trials with the hope that they will make you humble - and therefore receptive to the Holy Spirit - which is how He helps us.

    "Mind you, the All-Knowing God already knows what I need help with, so I did not need to put in a prayer request."

    Yes - you do. Even though God knows what we want and need - He has instructed us to pray - because the act of prayer establishes a connection with deity - which we need.

    He isn't a djinn in a bottle. He is your Father and He wants to have a conversation with you.

    "God already knows I have tried to solve these problems by myself to no avail, so it is not as if I am just sitting around doing nothing."

    Yet part of your process is to curse God - which gums up the works. You are speaking to a Being that deserves respect.

    "I have struggled with these issues for what seems like forever but I have come to a dead end and I know not what to do."

    It is very possible that you are not meant to overcome these challenges. God gives us what we can handle and depending on how we handles these burdens we can shrink or grow from them.

    "This is when God is supposed to step in and help me if He is worth His salt."

    Pure. Unadulterated. Pride.
    Communion with your Father in Heaven.
     
  17. Fallen Prophet

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    God is not a djinn in a bottle. He isn't at our beck and call for whatever we desire.

    This life is a process to prove to ourselves and to Him who and what we want to be.

    He wants to help us in that process.

    So - He isn't going to help you act in a manner that is counterproductive to that process.

    My young children are constantly asking me for candy - but I'd be a POS parent if I always gave them what they wanted.

    My job isn't to give them everything they want - but to keep them healthy and happy and hopefully help them grow into independent and hard-working adults.

    And if my kids don't like it - or if they act in a manner I feel is inappropriate - they get a time-out and I don't listen to them while they are in time-out.
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    How about this? It describes what’s happening right now in the world.


    The world with the various calamities that have befallen it, will be completely ravaged and its civilization demolished, if the Bahá'ís do not come to its help and embue it with the spirit that Bahá'u'lláh has brought to the world. The economic factions, political parties, national hatreds, racial prejudices, and religious antagonisms, will continue to bring about devastating wars until the spirit of the Cause permeates the heart of man, and its universal teachings pull down the existing barriers. Let us be reminded of our duty by the misery we see around us, and arise for the prosecution of our noble duty."

    (From a letter dated 24 November 1931 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the American National Spiritual Assembly)
     
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  19. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    You sound like a good parent. When your kids get sick you do everything in your power to help them, right? if your 5 year old is vomiting and begs to you, "Daddy, please help me" you act immediately, right?

    Millions of Christians are in the exact same dilemma as your child. I know of millions of Christians whose children are battling cancer right this minute and the parents are praying their hearts out. But the children die slow agonizing deaths anyway. Does He answer those prayers or does He just ignore them? God doesn't even have the decency to let them die quickly without pain.

    But Christians have invented dozens of excuses for why God doesn't answer prayers. You just gave us one. "God isn't at your beck and call to come running when you ask Him to do something." Other lame excuses: you have sin in your life; you don't have enough faith when you pray; God's idea of a good thing is different than yours; God is waiting for you to be obedient; and on and on and on and on...but the results are all the same: God doesn't answer their prayers and kids die by the millions.

    From a Christian point of view, IMHO you should be thinking what I am thinking--that God is worthless parent not fit to have people calling him father. But I know your fear of hell and ticking him off and all that prevents you from even considering what a lousy parent he really is. If God were human He'd be locked up for criminal child abuse and the jailers would throw away the key.
     
    #119 SeekingAllTruth, Mar 4, 2021
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  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, it isn’t making a demand because I asked for help – I told Him I need help, I did not make a demand.
    I said that is what I usually do, not what I did this time. Maybe God can see that I have made some progress because God is not petty and holding grudges for what “I used to do.”
    How would you know, are you God? Since you are NOT God, why do you speak for God?

    I asked for help, that is all I did, and I got help, so I guess there was something God could do.
    I was not asking for a sign and I don’t give a rip what the Bible says, it is not the Book I go by because it is thousands of years old so it no longer applies to the present age.
    How do you think you know what God is doing? How do you know how many trials I have endured and passed? You only met me a few days ago on a forum. My whole life has been tests and I have passed them all so far.

    God does not help us through the Holy Spirit; God helps us by sending Messengers. God has done that three times since Jesus walked the earth. I do not need what God sent 2000 years ago.
    Who is “we?” You can only speak for yourself, not for me. I need no connection with God nor do I want it. The next thing you will say is that is why I don’t have a connection, but I already know that because that is a Baha’i belief.

    5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4
    Gimmie a break. I do not adhere to Christian beliefs. God has no conversations with ordinary people, only with His Messengers like Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.
    Show me where I cursed God, and even if I did that would only gum up the works for a petty capricious God. That God is not the God I believe in. The God I believe in is the one true God, not the imaginary God some Christians imagine exists and gets his feelings hurt by humans.

    “Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
    And you think you know what God gives us how? Oh I almost forgot, you have the Bible that was written by men who never even knew Jesus. If God only gives people what they can handle why do so many people commit suicide? I hear these same platitudes from other Baha’is; I don’t need to hear them from Christians. Can you explain why atheists have more compassion than believers?
    No, that is not what that is and I do not believe that God is obligated to step in; I only said that in jest. I guess you could not figure that out.

    But it is only according to Christian and Baha’i scriptures that say God steps in, so don’t blame me for scriptures, as I would not have any expectations of God without those scriptures.

    Aside from that, who are you to judge anyone?

    Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10
    What if I don’t want that? Why should I want that, just because you want it?
     
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