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Featured I cried out to God last night

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That's quite enough. :)
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Since the omnipotent/omniscient God has no needs it seems odd that people would ask what we have done for God. o_O
    It is rather the other way around, for those who are logical.
     
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  3. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    We speak of two realms - the natural and the spiritual. The natural
    seeks the corporate proof, the spiritual (based upon relationship)
    is based upon the private experience.
     
  4. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, why-questions usually lead to made up answers. It begs the question that there is some ultimate reason for the Universe to be here. For us to be here. A "why" must first assess that there is a potential "because", before it can be made with a certain confidence.

    For instance, why is that mountain in Switzerland and not in Canada, for instance?
    Why is it there?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  5. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    Suffering hopelessly, just being afraid is enough. I’m serious fear is easily moral, yet still it is easily the most endangered thing.
     
    #85 MonkeyFire, Mar 2, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I presume you have heard about the butterfly effect.

    Lets say a person living in Australia calls on God and needs something, and another person in Asia needs something else, what if one persons need fulfilled would deprive the other of his need? I understand they maybe too far away, and way too irrelevant to each other, but yet it could be that they may have an effect on each other.

    What do you think?
     
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  7. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    I find your mountain point quite funny, but upon reflection it's a false analogy.
    You CAN answer that question via various pathways, but the question of why
    there is something rather than nothing is deeper.
    And the more relevant thought isn't about quantum states and dark energy,
    this question is relevant to us, ie why is the universe AND MYSELF here?
     
  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    I can speak for myself. I don't think it makes sense to ask why I am here, apart from amazing you all with my acumen, lol. But I can say something about the how I am here. We, living beings, are here because reproductive organisms tend to reproduce themselves, adapt, change, survive. But that is biology, and there is no ultimate purpose for them to do that. It is just mechanics. And given enough time some of them will ask the question: what am I doing here?

    Why is there something instead of nothing is not deep at all. Also because any explanation, like God, the great Juju, Mother Goose, or whatever, will beg the question, why is there God/Juju/MG instead of none of those?

    Usually, an attempt to resolve this is achieved by differentiating things between contingent and necessary. Contingent things require an explanation, while necessary ones exist without an explanation. They are just necessarily so.

    But that will open a can of worms, and does not resolve any issue, either. Since it leads to self defeating conclusions like the Universe being necessary, and therefore defusing the original question altogether. Ergo, I posit that any "why" question can be answered only by self defeating, or circular arguments.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  9. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Every so often I look at animations of proteins, genes, ribosomes and the like. They freak me
    out - a whole universe inside a living cell, complete with its own huge library. The more elaborate
    these tiny machines get, the more pointless is becomes.
    Some are happy there exists 'no reason' for life. This leads to nihilism and narcissism for sure, but
    finding meaning to make a 'better society' isn't what this is about. Just the same, the stats below
    show something is wrong with our great enlightened, post-Nietzsche world.
    Where do these tiny machines come from? They are evolved proteins, passed down through genes,
    transcribed through ribosome machines. But ultimately where did they come from, beyond chemistry
    and physics and condensed matter? Accidents of evolution explain nothing before the beginning of
    physics.
    But all this is not why I believe in God.
     
  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    It makes sense that if what I need from God would interfere with something someone else needs, we could not both have our needs fulfilled. The thing is that what I need has nothing to do with any other humans so it cannot interfere with their needs. ;)
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Well, I am not gonna ask your needs. ;)

    One thing I have understood in my life is we never know how much affect something could have. We are way too limited to really know. I'll give you an example.

    I was reading up on terrorism and randomly came across this guy who ran from Asia to Germany in the pretext that his life was in danger. The country was a small country called Sri Lanka and the terrorist group was called the LTTE. They assassinated a man from their own ethnicity once, and this guy I am speaking of went to Germany, lied to the government at the time who were supporting this terrorist group and their people. So he pretended he was one of the informants working for the LTTE and that the government is now waiting to kill him if he returns to his mother country. Of course, this was a ploy to get a citizenship. This was done by at least 600,000 people at that time around the world. Do you understand? It was no big deal. Everyone of these 600k people did the same thing around the world to get asylum in various countries like that.

    So this one individual is no big deal. But, then, recently the German government changed their policy about this group. They jailed this guy after about 30 years living in this country. His spouse committed suicide in the house, and a trail of bloody nonsense took place after that. Butterfly effect.

    Anyway, what ever you are asking for, I know there some things that are impossible, somethings are wishing for miracles, but I wish you every possible happiness you could muster. You are one of the wonderful persons one could meet, and pictures are not necessary to see that. Just words are enough.

    Peace.
     
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  13. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I'm supposed to yell at the moon, now?

    *peers suspiciously*

    If you're expecting an answer, you might be on the wrong team, you know.
     
  14. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    'without God' is an atheistic approach. 'By yourself' is not.
     
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  15. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    'I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world.'
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Yelling at the Moon is optional....& fun.
     
  17. Fallen Prophet

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    "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14)

    "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." (Matthew 6:6)

    "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." (Luke 14:11)

    You're doing it wrong.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not much for how-to manuals or guidebooks.... I am a Trailblazer.
    I'm doing it the only way I can do it, and still remain honest.
    If God doesn't like it He does not have to answer..... but usually He does, although only when I cry out in pain.
     
  19. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I fully support random yelling.
    It's therapeutic.
     
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  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    I truly wish there were words of encouragement to offer you, Trailblazer. If this had been my own sibling or parent telling me this in all honestly I couldn't say anything to them more than "Be strong and hang in there." :(
     
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