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Featured I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by adrian009, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    If you have to wait until judgment to find out if you have trodden the correct path, it may be too late!

    How can you know, here and now, that your sin has been taken away?
     
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    When Jesus saved a women of ill repute He advised her to turn away from sin.

    John 8:3-11

    Your faith in Jesus appears to require nothing of you. Mine requires concerted efforts each day to live the life.

    I have met many wonderful Christians who live the life. I have also met many who reflect little of the virtues Christ spoke and are all talk. I have also met many ex-Christians who once felt as you do but no longer consider themselves Christians.
     
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  3. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    How can you?
     
  4. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Well we are one in Jesus so both you and I are blest for believing in Him.

    With reference to Jesus it is said:

    Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

    This is a tribute to Jesus.

    Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping...............

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86
     
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  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Since what is prophesied across the texts is that the world has become corrupted since its origin, and thus it shall be cleansed (Isaiah 54:9-10).

    The idea of dissecting Isaiah as a manuscript into parts, is because academics can not get their head around Isaiah being so advanced on prophetically naming - like on naming 'Cyrus' so far in the future.

    Yet Isaiah 8:2 correctly predicts Zechariah son of y+Berechiah 500 years in the future, and Yeshua Elohim 700 years in the future, etc.

    Think it is important to take into account that Isaiah is Yeshayahu in Hebrew (Saved by the Lord), which is the rephrasing of the name Yehoshua (the Lord Saves).

    If we examine parts of Isaiah we have Isaiah 13, Isaiah 24, Isaiah 34 where the literal word for 'World' (têbêl - H8398) in Hebrew is Shaken like an Olive Tree or Fig Tree in Summer; where then the wicked shall fall into Hell.

    If we want to exegete the Bible, I suggest getting Esword Bible software, with a KJV+, HOT+, Greek+, KJV Concordance; as it is an essential to have the tools to open up any subject in the Bible - it makes it quicker, and painless to study then.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #25 wizanda, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
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  6. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is a thread about Isaiah, thus thank you for posting that - as contextually it is the opposite; so lets now show where it is fake by context in the thread.

    In Isaiah 52:10-14 the Spirit of Salvation is put into the Flesh of King David; in Isaiah 11:1-2, Isaiah 42:1, we're told the Spirit is put upon the Servant who is the Righteous Branch of Jesse.

    The Source creates reality from the Word - like Code in a computer; therefore Yehoshua can not yield up his Spirit which was put on him by the Source, as the Source makes everything (Isaiah 45:7).

    'Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things.'


    This teaching from Baha'u'llah is the same Pharisaic Oral Tradition that Yeshua challenged in Mark 7:6-13, where he is citing Isaiah 29:9-14.

    The Pharisee Oral Tradition since Babylon was - "The death of the righteous can atone for the sins of that Generation".

    This allowed for corruption of the Torah, and Isaiah prophesied it; that the Blind Guides Isaiah 56:9-12 would mislead the flock, and turn all the sheep to their own way (Isaiah 53:6).

    Isaiah 53:1 contextually links with Isaiah 28:9-19 to create the Bed of Adultery, as stated in Isaiah 28:20-21.

    Where the Bed of Adultery is that the covenant with Death is Disannulled, before it was even thought about by Pauline Christianity.

    Thus in Isaiah 28, when the Messiah comes explaining this precept upon precept; many won't listen before the Harvest is expected (Isaiah 28:11-13, Isaiah 28:22).

    Basically Baha'u'llah is guilty of teaching people human sacrifice is acceptable, and the Bible has set a Snare (Isaiah 8:13-16), to catch out those not smart enough to study or know this intuitively.

    The charge according to the Bible for the people who do these things according to Yeshua ('Vultures Gathering' - Luke 17:37), is they're all put in the Lake of Fire soon for being Ravenous Beings (Isaiah 34:15).

    After the Lake of Fire (Isaiah 34:9, Deuteronomy 29:23 - H1614) there is a New Earth (Isaiah 66:22).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #26 wizanda, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  7. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 11:1-2

    “In Isaiah 11:1–9 it is said: “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:”

    “But these verses apply word for word to Bahá’u’lláh. (Abdul-Baha)
    He was descended from David through His father Jesse and from Abraham through Katurah.

    Another of Baha’u’llah’s titles is the Lord of Hosts.

    Some Answered Questions
    ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá
     
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  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Baha'u'llah didn't listen to the words of the prophets properly; thus can not be something that hasn't happened yet...

    Isaiah 11 is when the Messianic Age happens, not before it.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  9. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    Not sure, but does this refute Mt. 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
     
  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The Messianic age is here.
     
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  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Have a look at the global news.

    Baha'u'llah made things worse, not better; by creating another religious branch, it causes more division.

    Thus let's please be realistic with what the prophecies about the Messianic Age state - a time where everyone globally will know the Source (Isaiah 11:9); whereas Atheism is the fastest growing religion.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  12. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    What we are witnessing now is not doom and gloom but the death pangs of the old ways and the birth pangs of the new.

    Since Baha’u’llah appeared we have witnessed a global movement towards universal human rights, interfaith, multiculturalism, a banning of racism and slavery and such things as world cooperation and world solidarity with many issues from the environment to poverty and disease. We have also witnessed a huge momentum towards the equalisation of the status of men and women.

    Thr Words ‘The earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’ meant very little in His time without the corresponding advances in technology and communications which have indeed fulfilled these Words and truly made of this earth - but one country, one global village.


    All,His teachings focus on promoting what unites us and discarding the man made doctrines that have for so long divided us one against another, caused wars and bloodshed.

    He has succeeded in establishing a world community bearing His Name which is composed of a cross section of the entire human race, all races, all religions and all nationalities abide therein in peace and unity, something the world has not been able to establish without His teachings.


    And many of His teachings are being spread by bodies such as the UN and promoting the concept of the oneness and equality of all humankind.


    The internet we communicate on is a result of the unifying force embedded in this Revelation which is uniting people from all over the world physically and eventually spiritually. We are one and that is the spirit of this age and division and disunity and discord are dying out as the human race replaces age old conflicts with peace and harmony.

    In the natural world the sun rises slowly. So too in this Messianic Age of fulfilment the sun of peace and goodwill between all men is slowly rising and will shine brightly in God’s own good time as we all learn to accept each other as members of one human family and race.
     
  13. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Baha'i are not uniting people on the internet, they're causing more division; arguing people's religious texts are wrong, rather than citing religious texts they're butchering them.

    Between the Baha'i on here, it is getting us to the point of us seeing Baha'u'llah as the Antichrist; since the followers are literally telling religious people on here, not to accept legitimate prophecy, and concepts.

    Thus unless someone actually fixes the texts, which is the Messiah's job in Isaiah 40:10, Isaiah 62:11 to rule, and guide the flock, where the Messiah corrects people's comprehensions...

    The Source becomes aggravated at the lack of moral understanding down here near Hell, as all nations come against Jerusalem in a Large Battle (Armageddon - Isaiah 29:1-8); where then the Source burns humanity by its presence, and creates a New World after.

    What gets us about Baha'i is they claim to follow all the world's religious texts, and this concept of a New Earth, with an Age of Godliness is recorded globally; whereas the Baha'i don't actually believe the Source is going to do what it has told everyone...

    Which is to cleanse the wicked from down here in a Day, and then after we come to an age of infinity, where we no longer age the same (Isaiah 65:20); Baha'i seem to not believe in miracles, and contexts, then argue the prophecy isn't real from each text.

    Literally the whole point in Moses's Curse (Deuteronomy 28-30) is about the Source systematically testing mankind; then comes the Holy Fire like Sodom, and Gomorrah for those who claim to have Peace whilst rejecting prophecy (Deuteronomy 29:19-27), and then comes the New Earth after.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    To my knowledge, the "new heavens and new earth" are mentioned four times in the Bible. Twice in Isaiah's restoration prophesies (Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 66:22) which extend to the "new earth" spoken about by the apostles Peter and John. (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1)

    So, Isaiah's prophesies about a "new heaven and a new earth" are both figurative and literal...having two fulfillments.....prophetic of the future. What Peter alluded to was something that Christians were "awaiting". The apostle John was looking into future events when he too spoke of the "new heavens and new earth".

    "This prophecy was initially fulfilled when faithful Jews returned to Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E. after their 70-year exile in Babylon. In that restoration, they formed a cleansed society, “a new earth,” under a new governmental system, “new heavens.” The apostle Peter, however, pointed to a further application of the prophecy, saying: “But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.” (2 Peter 3:13) John now shows that this promise is fulfilled during the Lord’s day. “The former heaven and the former earth,” Satan’s organized system of things with its governmental structure influenced by Satan and his demons, will pass away. The turbulent “sea” of wicked, rebellious mankind will cease to exist. In its place will be “a new heaven and a new earth”—a new earthly society under a new government, God’s Kingdom.—Compare Revelation 20:11."

    A New Heaven and a New Earth — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

    When we correlate this with John's vision in Revelation 21:1-4, we see that everything that causes human suffering will "pass away"....the 'old earth and heavens' are gone.....replaced by new ones.

    This is not literally a new planet and a new universe because there is nothing wrong with the old ones....its a new arrangement, God having removed all opposers, means that a new earthly society will emerge and a new governmental system will rule over them...God's kingdom. (Daniel 2:44)

    Isaiah goes on to say in ch 65:22-25.....
    ".....For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree,
    And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.

    23 They will not toil for nothing,

    Nor will they bear children for distress,
    Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah,
    And their descendants with them.


    24 Even before they call out, I will answer;

    While they are yet speaking, I will hear.

    25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together,

    The lion will eat straw just like the bull,
    And the serpent’s food will be dust.

    They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” says Jehovah."


    Even the animals will be at peace with each other and with man, as it would have been in the original paradise.
    This is what Jehovah's Witnesses look forward to under the rulership of God's Kingdom...the one Jesus taught us to pray for.

    When Isaiah says that "the former things will not be called to mind"....he means that all we have suffered will not come back to haunt us.....we will retain no bad memories of this life. God will ensure that they do not come to mind.

    John goes on to say...
    "And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” (Revelation 21:5)

    That is how we see it......
     
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  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Then you go your way and we’ll go ours. Whenever a Manifestation appears They are always opposed because They do not conform to the ideas current amongst men but come to bring change. Christ was crucified because of this. So it is with men. When God sends a Messenger to them with that which they don’t want then they oppose and kill Them and try and discredit Them. Nothing new here.
     
  16. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Since I've clearly stated I'm sent from Heaven on here many times; do you realize what you just did, was to add additional potential to kill us, for saying people are wrong about their religious understandings? :eek:

    I can accept Baha'u'llah had vision to know WW1, WW2 were to happen; where I've got the up most respect for his life, and dedication.

    What I'm saying as someone who can prove fulfilment of prophecy, from Baha'i writings as well (Zion); is that most Anti-Christ's teachings in the world do not recognize the Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 28:9-21), thus will be removed in a Day, as Isaiah prophesied (Isaiah 10:17).

    If as you state, "I go my way, and you go yours", as someone provable as an archangel; I feel sorry for humanity, when people pay no attention, and choose that direction.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  17. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    It's true, Jesus told the woman caught committing adultery to go away and sin no more. She was a Jewess living under the law. The reason she escaped stoning was that Jesus made every one of her accusers aware that they too were sinners deserving of punishment. Her accusers had no right to pass judgment on her. But he, Jesus, was without sin, and therefore able to pass judgment. His decision was to forgive her.

    We don't know what happened to that woman. But in my mind, she went away thankful, and probably wanted to know more about the man who had forgiven her. She may well have become a believer and been one of those baptized in the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Who knows?

    Contrary to the impression you have gathered of my faith, I feel that I now owe Christ everything. Like the woman caught in the act of adultery, I know that Christ has forgiven me of all my sin, and I am very thankful. I don't repay Him by turning my back on His commandment to love others as He has loved me! His Spirit now demands that I give my all. It's a commitment that scares many away (like the rich man) but one that promises ultimate glory.
     
    #37 Redemptionsong, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    How can you know, here and now, that your sin has been forgiven?

    I would answer this by saying that the words of scripture prove themselves to be reliable and trustworthy.

    In the scriptures we learn about man's need to sacrifice to atone for sin. Under the law, the atonement was temporary, and with each new sin a new sacrifice was necessary. In Christ, the atonement is eternally effectual.

    To know that your sin has been taken away you have to go to the very foot of the cross and look up at the person who shed his sinless blood for you. Until you come to know that it was done for you, Adrian, you'll never know that your sin has been taken away. It has to be a heart to heart with the mediator and Saviour Himself.

    IMO, no one else in history accomplished what Jesus Christ accomplished for mankind.
     
    #38 Redemptionsong, Dec 8, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  19. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    When the world has over 40,000 sects of Christianity alone it doesn’t need any help to cause conflicts because each sect already says that the other 39,999 sects are wrong.

    Baha’u’llah does away with these conflicts of sects by emphasising that the foundation of all religions is one and the same and that the sects which have arisen out of theological disputes are not from God but man made. That all the religions teach love and unity so there is no excuse for division, holy wars and sectarianism which comes from man not God.


    So to Baha’is we see Jesus and the Bible only not the 40,000 sects. We can accept the foundation of all religions because their foundation is one. But conflicting sects are the cause of war, hatred, prejudice and bitterness between religions because they do not unite around their foundation.
     
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  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe these are events associated with the return of Jesus.
     
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