I can't value things intellectually

[The Transcended Omniverse]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Did you write the OP with intellect or emotion or a bit of both?

 

[Nakosis]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

There's nothing wrong with emotions. Not even anger or hate. The "negative emotions". You feel what you feel and your feeling is what affects you values. However you have a conscious mind for a purpose. While your emotions are not rational, your conscious mind is. Feel your emotions but don't let your emotions do your conscious thinking for you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

But your emotions come from your thoughts. Your feelings not always. Example.

Someone hit me
Pain and bruise (feeling)
Ouch! You hit me (thought)
Now Im gong to get you back! (Emotion)

If youre lucky you can use your thoughts not your heart nor emotions to counter act that since our emotions/heart is fickled without some positive realistic feedback.

Wow you hit me!
Calm. Calm. (Change your feelings)
Man! That was a close call. (Relabel your thoughts)
Okay. Dont worry about it (Emotion)

But your thoughts is the key not your emotions nor your heart. Once you get your thoughts in control, you can pick up your feelings faster (oh. tha hurt. wait a minute.... ooh.. he didnt see me) and translate your thoughts in an assertive way thereby reacting for the better of your wellbeing as well as the other.

So valuing intellegence (our thought processes that perceive and organize new information) is important to help stabalize and change psychological and physicological feelings as to formhealthy emotions and regulate uncomfortable feelings.

Valuing emotions over intelligence makes anyone go every which a place with justifying what they feel is right. So, religiously, someone can feel god is present then the next week, they are singing in the mountains, then the following week saying Kumbaya.

Emotions can be fickled. Intelligence helps by learning new assertive techniques to have healthy emotions and catch feelings faster to address them.

Valuing both is pretty good. I think intelligence is the key since without it, our emotions will be all over the place.

 

[sealchan]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

There is neural science and some older psychology to support this.

C.G. Jung understood there to be two rational systems of cognition: thinking and feeling. My understanding of the difference between these two comes from my years of marriage as a thinking type to a feeling type. It seems that feeling types make rational sense of the world through "values". They evaluate the good or bad of things...both for themselves and for others and come to a rational understanding of the world and especially what is important or of value.

The thinking types like me create a rational system of understanding based on the definitions of terms. In this way we create the familiar logical understanding of reality that, at its peak, turns us into scholarly nerds or Sheldon-like Vulcans. The truth is in the accuracy of one's words and their clear, non-contradictory interrelationship.

In the Jungian view, emotion comes in when there is a strong amount of "affect" or psychic energy which is directed toward those instinctual actions which are associated with the expression of emotion. Whether happy, angry or sad, this is a way to release excess psychic energy. These emotions carry with them inextricably implied values. But these "valuations" can take place without emotion although emotion is always close by as a potential should the energy of one's cogitations become strong enough.

The pleasure and pain that arises from the experience of one's cognitive bias allows one to place a greater value or lesser value on emotions. For the thinker emotions and values have their role but they are secondary to the truth of thinking rationality. For the feeling types, such as I suspect that you are, you see that emotions are the banner carriers of your personal values.

For me this "intellectual" understanding has been the bridge to my understanding and accepting the feelings and emotions in others and their acknowledgment in myself.

 

[sealchan]

But your emotions come from your thoughts. Your feelings not always. Example.

Someone hit me
Pain and bruise (feeling)
Ouch! You hit me (thought)
Now Im gong to get you back! (Emotion)

If youre lucky you can use your thoughts not your heart nor emotions to counter act that since our emotions/heart is fickled without some positive realistic feedback.

Wow you hit me!
Calm. Calm. (Change your feelings)
Man! That was a close call. (Relabel your thoughts)
Okay. Dont worry about it (Emotion)

But your thoughts is the key not your emotions nor your heart. Once you get your thoughts in control, you can pick up your feelings faster (oh. tha hurt. wait a minute.... ooh.. he didnt see me) and translate your thoughts in an assertive way thereby reacting for the better of your wellbeing as well as the other.

So valuing intellegence (our thought processes that perceive and organize new information) is important to help stabalize and change psychological and physicological feelings as to formhealthy emotions and regulate uncomfortable feelings.

Valuing emotions over intelligence makes anyone go every which a place with justifying what they feel is right. So, religiously, someone can feel god is present then the next week, they are singing in the mountains, then the following week saying Kumbaya.

Emotions can be fickled. Intelligence helps by learning new assertive techniques to have healthy emotions and catch feelings faster to address them.

Valuing both is pretty good. I think intelligence is the key since without it, our emotions will be all over the place.

I'm going to recast your scenario into a Jung meets cognitive science way and to further clarify and flesh out some terminology...

Emotions express a relatively high amount of psychic energy. Psychic energy is simply the "strength" of one's neural activity. If one is in danger or suddenly resolves some troubling issue, one will experience a wave of emotion as a sort of relief value of this psychic energy. This expression is also evolutionarily valuable in social animals as it creates signs of the inner state of an individual that others can recognize and respond to.

Someone hit me, pain and bruising (sensation)
Ouch! You hit me! (emotion)
Now Im gong to get you back! (weak feeling)

Here we have a sensory input resulting from a punch. Then the pain sets in generating a flood of neural energy and putting the brain into a fight or flight mode (not conducive to good rationality of any kind). What results is a weak form of feeling where the individual has, in the loosest terms, rationalized that one wrong turn deserves revenge.

Rationality is better served after the subsidence of emotion so that the brain can allow the rational process to not be carried away by the flood of sensory information. But there will be a lasting valuation of the "puncher" that will be addressed. One can respond with simple feeling that quickly identifies the assailant as a criminal or one can wait until more of the context or story of what took place and why becomes available. This provides food for thought to feeling rationality to judge the event and determine one's evaluation of the character of the assailant and the impact on the victim. That initial quick evaluation in a fight or flight mode of brain activity can then crystalize into something more rational and less emotional.

One's own vulnerability will also be evaluated. If one has made a poor choice and has put one's self in the way of that punch then one's priorities and choices can be critiqued. The value of the various considerations that went into being the one involved in the event can be adjusted based on the experience, the suffering that resulted and/or the equivocation of unfortunate, but benevolent, circumstances.

Any rational system of cognition, whether feeling or thinking, should allow someone to avoid highly emotional experiences in favor of more adaptive experiences that bring meaning and value and truth to one's life. Happiness is a hard emotion to want to criticize but perhaps certain states of bliss and other less intense moods are more to be cultivated as common experiences. Emotions tend to come when less expected and more dramatic than we anticipate. As such a desire to feel an emotion is more difficult because it requires more of the element of that which we cannot control.

I would also say that one cannot control emotions through thinking or any kind of rationality except in the long run. Through rational cognition (thinking or feeling) one constructs a rational understanding of the world in which one can derive a greater degree of control over their risk of emotion producing mishaps...but maybe also a slightly greater likelihood of positive emotional experiences. In this sense rational cognition and emotion are at odds.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm going to recast your scenario into a Jung meets cognitive science way and to further clarify and flesh out some terminology...

Emotions express a relatively high amount of psychic energy. Psychic energy is simply the "strength" of one's neural activity. If one is in danger or suddenly resolves some troubling issue, one will experience a wave of emotion as a sort of relief value of this psychic energy.

This expression is also evolutionarily valuable in social animals as it creates signs of the inner state of an individual that others can recognize and respond to.

Someone hit me, pain and bruising (sensation)
Ouch! You hit me! (emotion)
Now Im gong to get you back! (weak feeling)

Here we have a sensory input resulting from a punch. Then the pain sets in generating a flood of neural energy and putting the brain into a fight or flight mode (not conducive to good rationality of any kind). What results is a weak form of feeling where the individual has, in the loosest terms, rationalized that one wrong turn deserves revenge.

Rationality is better served after the subsidence of emotion so that the brain can allow the rational process to not be carried away by the flood of sensory information. But there will be a lasting valuation of the "puncher" that will be addressed. One can respond with simple feeling that quickly identifies the assailant as a criminal or one can wait until more of the context or story of what took place and why becomes available. This provides food for thought to feeling rationality to judge the event and determine one's evaluation of the character of the assailant and the impact on the victim. That initial quick evaluation in a fight or flight mode of brain activity can then crystalize into something more rational and less emotional.

One's own vulnerability will also be evaluated. If one has made a poor choice and has put one's self in the way of that punch then one's priorities and choices can be critiqued. The value of the various considerations that went into being the one involved in the event can be adjusted based on the experience, the suffering that resulted and/or the equivocation of unfortunate, but benevolent, circumstances.

Any rational system of cognition, whether feeling or thinking, should allow someone to avoid highly emotional experiences in favor of more adaptive experiences that bring meaning and value and truth to one's life. Happiness is a hard emotion to want to criticize but perhaps certain states of bliss and other less intense moods are more to be cultivated as common experiences. Emotions tend to come when less expected and more dramatic than we anticipate. As such a desire to feel an emotion is more difficult because it requires more of the element of that which we cannot control.

I would also say that one cannot control emotions through thinking or any kind of rationality except in the long run. Through rational cognition (thinking or feeling) one constructs a rational understanding of the world in which one can derive a greater degree of control over their risk of emotion producing mishaps...but maybe also a slightly greater likelihood of positive emotional experiences. In this sense rational cognition and emotion are at odds.

Ima read this again in a bit, but this is the gist of what Im saying. Im going through CBT therapy and figuring out how the three relates. We cant control our pysiology in response to external stimil (flight and fright response), depend on the person, we have X thoughts that control whether we experience healthy or unhealthy emotions (Culture-X members feel when they are hit, they feel at peace knowing it wasnt the internal fault of the person who hit them; so they hold no grudges. Culture-Z members think because the person hit them, they hold a grudge on that other persons actions).

It highly depends on the persons upbringing and environent of how they interpret automatic feelings in a healthy or unhealthy way. But the key is learning to work with our thoughts so our emotions wont affect ourselves and others.

As for the psychic energy and things. I have to look that up. I think its more simple than that or less mystical way of explain it.

 

[godnotgod]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

Now that was a great intellectual analysis of your condition.

Did it ever occur to you that you experience the negative emotions when reality does not match your expectations for positive outcomes?

From a spiritual POV, you are experiencing relative joy and relative suffering, the two of which are inextricably joined together as one. Some day the fact that you are going round and round will dawn on you and you will seek higher ground, that of Absolute Joy, for which no opposite exists.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

But your emotions come from your thoughts. Your feelings not always. Example.

Someone hit me
Pain and bruise (feeling)
Ouch! You hit me (thought)
Now Im gong to get you back! (Emotion)

If youre lucky you can use your thoughts not your heart nor emotions to counter act that since our emotions/heart is fickled without some positive realistic feedback.

Wow you hit me!
Calm. Calm. (Change your feelings)
Man! That was a close call. (Relabel your thoughts)
Okay. Dont worry about it (Emotion)

But your thoughts is the key not your emotions nor your heart. Once you get your thoughts in control, you can pick up your feelings faster (oh. tha hurt. wait a minute.... ooh.. he didnt see me) and translate your thoughts in an assertive way thereby reacting for the better of your wellbeing as well as the other.

So valuing intellegence (our thought processes that perceive and organize new information) is important to help stabalize and change psychological and physicological feelings as to formhealthy emotions and regulate uncomfortable feelings.

Valuing emotions over intelligence makes anyone go every which a place with justifying what they feel is right. So, religiously, someone can feel god is present then the next week, they are singing in the mountains, then the following week saying Kumbaya.

Emotions can be fickled. Intelligence helps by learning new assertive techniques to have healthy emotions and catch feelings faster to address them.

Valuing both is pretty good. I think intelligence is the key since without it, our emotions will be all over the place.

I already know all this. I'm saying I don't have the capacity to value things intellectually.

 

[sealchan]

Ima read this again in a bit, but this is the gist of what Im saying. Im going through CBT therapy and figuring out how the three relates. We cant control our pysiology in response to external stimil (flight and fright response), depend on the person, we have X thoughts that control whether we experience healthy or unhealthy emotions (Culture-X members feel when they are hit, they feel at peace knowing it wasnt the internal fault of the person who hit them; so they hold no grudges. Culture-Z members think because the person hit them, they hold a grudge on that other persons actions).

It highly depends on the persons upbringing and environent of how they interpret automatic feelings in a healthy or unhealthy way. But the key is learning to work with our thoughts so our emotions wont affect ourselves and others.

View attachment 24296

As for the psychic energy and things. I have to look that up. I think its more simple than that or less mystical way of explain it.

Thanks for this.

I'm putting a very Jungian terminology to this that is probably not accepted or even known in most traditional academic circles. A good resource for the source of my terminology is in the back of C.G. Jung's Psychological Types where he has a glossary of terms.

In that terminology there are rational vs irrational cognitive functions (= thinking in common terms), emotion is affect, and psychic energy (perhaps a later term of Jung's) is probably very close to intensity of neural activity or at least an expression of the force of mutual neural influence.

 

[sealchan]

I already know all this. I'm saying I don't have the capacity to value things intellectually.

My wife's eyes glaze over whenever I go into full intellectual mode.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

As a matter of fact, I don't recall a single given moment in my life where I valued things intellectually. My positive emotions, or what people like to call, the good feelings such as feelings of happiness, fun, love, and joy, are the only things that allow me to value things as beautiful, good, magnificent, amazing, etc.

My negative emotions, or the bad feelings such as feelings of misery, disgust, and rage, are the only things that allow me to value things as horrible, bad, disgusting, tragic, etc. So, I need my positive emotions to make my life something positive and I should avoid the negative emotions as well as apathy.

When I'm apathetic, I can't value anything in my life at all. Truly thinking that something is beautiful or horrible in my life doesn't allow me to value that thing as horrible or beautiful. That's what I mean here when I say I can't value things intellectually.

Therefore, I have to rely on my primal instincts (emotions) in order to value things. Sadly, emotions are very fleeting things which means living a beautiful life would be something fleeting for me.

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

It's seems why people prefer living a fantasy over reality as to how they want to live their lives. I understand the appeal, but I don't think living on the basis of emotions full-blown is an entirely healthy way to go.

Emotions can certainly cloud intellect with an understanding however that a completely intellectual approach can result in becoming indifferent and perceived as unfeeling. I try to strike for a balance. Just enough to keep the feet on the ground.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I'm saying I don't have the capacity to value things intellectually.

Is value the word you really mean? If so, why can't you value something intellectually? I value my car because I understand what it can do for me, not because of any emotional relationship I have with it. Isn't that valuing intellectually?

And even those things which I have emotional attachments to, such as my wife, I understand her value to my life. I know what would disappear if I lost her, and many of those are things that are useful and helpful to me.

Can it really be different for you?

The branch of philosophy that considers value is called axiology if that interests you.

My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually.

Feelings and emotions are where we live, not in the intellect. People who lose the ability to feel are generally classified as clinically depressed, and they often choose to stop living. Thee is no point in living a numb, colorless life.

The proper function of the intellect is to understand the world and its ways in order to optimally control the emotional experience - facilitating, amplifying and prolonging the desired experiences while avoiding the pitfalls that lead to unhappiness to the best of our ability according to that understanding. I believe that it was Plato that compared these two to the horse and rider. The intellect holds the reins and attempts to make the ride a smooth and pleasant one.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Also, I don't think thoughts and emotions can be the same thing which means emotions are distinct from intellect. So, the emotional values cannot take on the form of my intellect which means intellect cannot be any real source of value in my life no matter what.

I enjoyed reading your post. Its great that you are sharing your own introspection gives me something to compare with mine.

My positive emotions are the only things that can make my life and composing dream something positive, beautiful, and worth living for. I'm going to explain why. My emotions are the only way I can value things in life which means I can't value things intellectually

It strikes me that intellect is like a rubber ducky, and emotions are its bathtub. Its always there and never sinks. It might also be like a ship that can steer and navigate, but it does not control the current or the storm. Some would disagree, and some people seem to have a lot of self discipline. I think self discipline is itself powered by feeling, like sails push a ship.

 

[osgart]

I think i have this problem of not being able to value intellectual things. Most intellectual materials i find do not jive with my perception of myself or my reality nor my experience of it.

I have a very simple self concept of heart, mind, will, and physiological feelings, and spiritual feelings. Perhaps i overspiritualize my feelings. Feelings may be very simple, or not.

Anyway i find it best to live by understanding and experience. For if i live by feelings alone, then i am subject to being too emotional. I try not to preconceive things, and make assumptions that closes me off.

With each different intellectual i find that i am learning a whole new language of perception and understanding things. Most often i get weighed down by intellectuality. I just want to get to the heart of the matter.

Sure enough getting lost in my own self concept, i lose touch with how others perceive things. I have my own sense of truth, and sure enough people have uniquely their own as well.

But there must be common language, the human experience, does it have to be so vastly different from person to person. There must be a common, as well as unique self perception to all beings.

Aren't we all heart, mind, and will unified in a single being amongst all other individuals of the same properties? Are we so vastly different in all ways that we can not understand each other whatsoever without overintellectualizing things?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I already know all this. I'm saying I don't have the capacity to value things intellectually.

What one values and their intellect go hand on hand. If you value things emotionally translating that emotion to understand and come to that conclusion is your intellect. Many people express value from their emotions rather than intellect because thats where that have the heart-experience and feel they can't experience the same with their intellect.

So you experience a common thing. My post is saying they are interelated but I understand it from The Dharma that what you feel is created by your intellect and interpreted by it. But everyone's different.