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Featured I can NEVER be a Jehovah's Witness! Here is why! I attend a JW Zoom meeting tomorrow though!

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Spiderman, Mar 5, 2022.

  1. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    jw עדי יהווה
    if you are speaking of the KJV of the bible ,its possible . its not the best
     
  2. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    I find it amazing that you would speak so lowly of Paul. A man chosen by Christ himself to take the message to the nations is not someone to speak so abusively of. Where is the fear of God these days???

     
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  3. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    what if the church is corrupt? Do you still have to trust that its version of truth is accurate?


    Can I just clarify that you actually do refer to the 'catholic' church as 'The Church' (i've been assuming that)
     
  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    That looks like you've been well indoctrinated yourself.... :D
    So you think you have intimate knowledge of the bible?
    I wouldn't make too many rash claims on RF...... there be dragons here.....! :p
     
  5. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    It's going to get worse.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing "old badgers" with "dragon", the term used for the devil/Satan/serpent. I went to a Roman Catholic parochial grade school, so I am aware of indoctrination, and I went to a Protestant located public high school, so I am aware of the Protestants seeking for clarity, but apparently not finding it. Keep in mind that the "dragon" gave his authority to the beast (emperors), and Babylon the Great (Roman church) sits on the beast (Roman empire) (Revelation 13:4 & 17:3).
     
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If someone prophecies something that does not come true, such as "we shall not all sleep", "do not fear that person". (Dt 18:22). You missed the second part of "fearing God" per Ecclesiastes 12:13, which is to "keep His commandments because this applies to every person".
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I will have to refer you to 1 John 3:27, whereas "His anointing" is to teach you.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I expect you mean the Roman catholic church, which sits on the beast (Rome), whose authority comes from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 13:4 & 17:3-5), whose Roman persona is Sol Invictus, the god of Constantine, whose day of worship is Sunday, through which the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine and his Roman church, is to deceive those "who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). I don't think that is a good idea.
     
  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Meh.....there be serpents and a few devils on here 'n' all! :)
     
  11. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    Eyes to See You said..... Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any dogma or teaching that is not in accord with Bible teaching.

    I reply.. Right off Scriptures>> "The Word was God and The word became Flesh!"
    The JW will say "the word was "A" god!" NOT Christian teaching Christians reject many gods for ONE God!
    The JW is not Christian believing in many gods!

    OR

    Scripture... John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
    JW's reject Jesus is God! who is himself God

    OR

    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

    Eyes to See clearly the JW is NOT blessed! Jesus does NOT stop Thomas' error NO fact is; Jesus takes in one step further... Blessed is the Christian a person that believes Jesus is God!

    Christians have ALWAYS taught Jesus died on a Cross! You see a Cross on a building you know it is a Christian Building! You see a person make the cross sign you KNOW instantly the person is Christian! SATAN...

    Eyes to See
    Satan is Anti-Christ; Satan is Anti-Christian! Satan would never allow a cross on any of his churches!

    Ignatius of Antioch...A.D. 110
    “Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him” (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).

    DICTIONARY
    crucify
    verb

    put (someone) to death by nailing or binding them to a cross, especially as an ancient punishment.
    "two thieves were crucified with Jesus
    "

    The JW thinks Jesus is a FOOL.
    Matthew 7:26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

    The JW is taught to reject Jesus built on ROCK! They believe Jesus lied that his Church was NOT built on ROCK that it fell!
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The canon of the NT is "God's word" according to the Roman Catholic church, who according to the reformers, is the "whore of Babylon. According to Yeshua in Matthew 13, it is the message of the "enemy"/devil mixed in the same field/book with the message of the son of man. Yeshua quoted from the book of the Law and the prophets, what is known as the Old Testament. He disparaged the scribes, the Pharisees, as hypocrites. The bulk of the NT is founded upon the writings of the Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul.
     
  13. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    There was corruption among the Apostles and the Church hierarchy, even when Jesus was with it. Jesus still built a Church and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it.

    That doesn't mean the Devil won't cause corruption and scandal. Corruption and scandal was among even the 12 Apostles who saw Jesus, worked miracles, and had enormous graces. Judas was an anointed chosen part of the hierarchy who betrayed Christ , peter denied him three times, 11 of the twelve ran like cowards when his crucifixion came.

    That doesn't mean the Holy spirit doesn't guide Church councils, the magisterium, or that the Catechism was not guided by the Holy Spirit.

    The belief that man can invent their own religion, as is the case with Jehovah's witnesses, or follow an unbiblical man-made "Bible alone" doctrine, is not the teaching of Christ, the Apostles, or Paul, and is not supported in Scripture.

    The Bible alone proves the Bible alone is Not, and never was intended to be the sole rule for sacred theology, faith, or morality, or tradition.
     
  14. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Amen! You speak the truth in that post! Preach it bro! :D:thumbsup::babyangel:
     
  15. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    we beg to differ on that.

    The bible is the authority, no man. And if you choose to take the word of a man over the word of God, then you get your manmade religion.
    If you follow the bible, it will be unlike a man made religion and perhaps that is why you see that JW's are so very different from other forms of Christianity.
     
  16. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Jehovah's witnesses don't follow the Bible though.

    Jehovah's witnesses don't use the Bible as the authority, because the Bible does not teach that the Bible is the authority on anything.

    The Holy spirit inspired a lot more than the Bible.

    Most of what God has spoken through prophets never got into the bible.

    The Bible says most of what Jesus said was never written down. It was still the word of God.

    A lot of Scripture Jehovah's witnesses explain away or deny, like the souls of the dead living on. Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah.

    Samuel told Saul that he would soon join him in the world of the dead. The martyrs in heaven, in the book of revelation, call for God's vengeance upon earth.

    The rich man in hades asks for water on his tongue. Why would Jesus speak of that, if the dead don't have tongues in another realm and feel hot flames? The poor man was taken to Abraham's bosom.

    The woman in the sky in revelation 12 is clothed with the Sun, standing on the Moon, crowned with stars, and battles the dragon.

    Jehovah's witnesses explain away Scriptures that don't suit their agenda , and follow Doctrines not found in the Bible.

    The Bible doesn't say to use the Bible as an authority on anything.

    Jesus left the early Christians with a Church, not a bible. He said "listen to the Church". He didn't even say to read the Bible.

    The first Christians were not Bible christians. Jehovah's witnesses are a man made Religion that follows doctrines not even found in the Bible. ;)
     
  17. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    We dont practice the mosaic law as a jew would, but as christians we follow the teachings of Jesus, we follow the requirements of a christian to preach the good news of the kingdom, we apply to laws of God in our every days lives as defined by the christian scriptures. To me, that is following the bible.

    All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim. 3:16, 17)

    For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, Romans 15:4

    1Cor 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us+ upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.

    2Timothy 3:14 You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe,+ knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy+ you have known the holy writings,+ which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.+


    Jesus Christ was a bible reader and following his example, we use the bible as the authority.
    Luke 4:16 He then went to Nazʹa·reth,+ where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue+ and stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him


    You would have to ask Jesus apostles about what he said which was never written down. Only Jesus 12 apostles were given authority to lay down the precepts of christian belief and practice. If you think the apocrypha is part of the bible, think again. It was not from the apostles and therefore it is not part of scripture.


    the bible is full of parables, allegory and metaphor. If you believed the hebrew scriptures you would know there was no 'afterlife' in their belief system. Any talk of 'hell' is nothing more then false christianity scaring people into giving over their money to the church.

    On the contrary, we explain the scriptures without the use of doctrines invented by the church.

    When that happens, you get something very different to what the church teaches and rightly so. The church is unscriptural in everytthing it does...even in setting up hospitals and schools...that is not something Jesus asked his followers to do.

    But on the point of doctrines, can you show me where the 'trinity' is found in the bible?
    the perpetual virgin Mary?
    Pergatory?
     
  18. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    As I thought, you could not find a single Bible verse stating that the Bible is the final authority on anything.

    All you could find is that Scripture is inspired by God, but Scripture often does not mean what it says, is a fact, so there needs to be an official interpretor.

    Also, most of the official teachings of the Catholic Church come out of the Bible, but not all of them , which makes sense, because nothing in the Bible says every belief you have about God or tradition, must come from the Bible.

    The Bible canon you accept, the New Testament Canon is a Catholic church tradition you accept. Where in Scripture does it say anywhere, that that is the correct New Testament Canon.??

    The Church had councils that you accept.

    And Jehovah's witnesses claim the Bible must inspire all their beliefs, but that is hypocrisy, because the Bible never says to do that. ;)
     
  19. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    The word of God was written down by Moses and given to the Isrealites. This is what he told them

    Deut 4:1 “Now, O Israel, listen to the regulations and the judicial decisions that I am teaching you to observe, so that you may live+ and go in and take possession of the land that Jehovah, the God of your forefathers, is giving you. 2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it,+ so as to keep the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you.

    What Moses had written down for them was the final word form God. They were not to add to it it take away from it because Gods Word is the authority in matters of faith, worship, righteousness, justice and wisdom and it was a matter of life and death! If you were found to be disobedient to Gods Word as written, you were put to death. Thats how authoritive Gods word was to the Isealites.

    The kings of Israel were instructed to make a copy of Gods laws and keep them and follow them.
    Deut 17: 18 When he takes his seat on the throne of his kingdom, he must write for himself in a book* a copy of this Law, taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests.+19 “It is to remain with him, and he must read from it all the days of his life,+ so that he may learn to fear Jehovah his God and observe all the words of this Law and these regulations by carrying them out.+

    It is with Gods word that truth is shown to mankind because Gods truth is greater then mans unrighteousness. This is the point that Paul was making when he wrote at Romans 3 when he stresses that a person should be judged by Gods Word, not mans.
    If some lacked faith, will their lack of faith invalidate the faithfulness of God? 4 Certainly not! But let God be found true,+ even if every man be found a liar,+ just as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.+

    You see, without Gods Word, how would you know what is true and what is false? You cant just go by mans word on the subject of faith and religion. God has witnessed everything and his judgements are expressed in his word.



    You are 100% correct! We do need an interpreter and Jesus said that his disciples would be provided such an interpreter.

    John 14:15 “If you love me, you will observe my commandments.+ 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper* to be with you forever,+ 17 the spirit of the truth,+ which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it.+ You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. 18 I will not leave you bereaved.* I am coming to you.+ 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me,+ because I live and you will live.

    This 'spirit of the truth' is the power of Gods holy spirit. Holy spirit is required to understand Gods Word and notice that Jesus said in the above scripture "which the world cannot receive" The world does not receive holy spirit and therefore cannot understand Gods word and this explains why there are so many different denominations today.



    So you think its ok for men to add their own touches to the scriptures? Interesting considering you have accused JW's of adding their own beliefs and you think that is wrong lol

    Are you following your own arguments or arguing against them??? ;)

    The catholic church did not exist until around 3rd /4th century. They are NOT the authority on scripture. They did not write any scriptures, they simply became the ruling authority because they siezed power and killed off any christian who did not believe or accept their pagan doctrines which they introduced.

    The catholic church does not have a 'spirit of the truth' in them. They teach falsehoods and things, as you admit, not found in the bible.

    So once again I ask you... are you following your own line of reasoning here???
     
  20. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Well-Known Member

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    2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it,
    I reply:
    The JW added the letter "A" to John 1:1 so it reads many gods!" Christians believe in ONE GOD! Bree Not one other scripture interpreter (over 60) has the letter "A" in John 1:1!
    ALL have it interpreted this way... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    You must not add to the word that I am commanding you,


    Deut 17:18 proves what? ... It proves that taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests.
    Bree The Priests give him the Law! The Church is the AUTHORITY over the King the CHURCH interprets the law!

    Bree your words... without Gods Word, how would you know what is true and what is false?
    I reply>>> The CHURCH would tell you what is true and what is false! You quote Romans 3 Paul preaching.. "It is written!"
    Paul also said in Acts 17.. That the Bereans were MORE NOBEL because they rejected Scriptures ALONE!

    Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    The Message Paul was teaching is "Christ Resurrected" Acts 17:3.
    Bree The Bereans would never have found truth without CHURCH (Paul) TEACHING! The Bereans did not have written in their Old Testament "Christ Resurrected"
    The Bereans NEEDED CHURCH to find truth!
    Bree Those in Thessalonica were LESS NOBLE because they believed in Scriptures ALONE, they REJECTED the teaching of the CHURCH! BUT...

    Bree
    but those in Thessalonica will have an excuse when they stand in judgement they did not have written in their Old Testament "Listen To The Church" as you do! You have NO EXCUSE for rejecting the Church, your scriptures tell you "Listen to the Church" you are LESS THEN noble just plain EGNOBLE!

    Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to his CHURCH to remain with his CHURCH FOREVER! This means your Church does NOT have the Holy Spirit
    Your church was NOT established by Jesus!
    John 14:16
    And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

    Bree Your words... The catholic church did not exist until around 3rd /4th century.
    Your words are a LIE until prove different they will ALWAYS remain a lie!

    Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). This is the first surviving mention in Christian literature of the name, “the Catholic Church,” the name which the Council of Constantinople (381) would later employ in the Nicene Creed to designate the entity for which that Council was speaking.
    The ancient account of the martyrdom of Polycarp, who was bishop of Smyrna in the early second century, when Ignatius passed through on the way to martyrdom, routinely refers to the whole Catholic Church throughout the world.

    Bree Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. His words>> where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”
    Constantine call the first council.. OVER 100 Catholic Bishops showed up; These Bishops did not come out of thin air!

    FACT: Scriptures tell you: Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the end of time; this means he cannot be with your church! Your church was started by a MAN 1800 years AFTER Jesus!
    FACT: Jesus build his CHURCH on ROCK; This means his Church cannot fail.. It means your Church is a LIE yours was started by a MAN 1800 yours AFTER Jesus established his Holy Church!
     
    #80 Dogknox20, Mar 9, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
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