I can NEVER be a Jehovah's Witness! Here is why! I attend a JW Zoom meeting tomorrow though!

[Hockeycowboy]

It does however mean God is a lousy unreliable shepherd who can't be trusted, if every Church for over 1500 years was teaching total falsehood as infallible Doctrine, and everyone was deceived!

The Church has been engaged in warfare since it’s official recognition by the State in the 4th century. And killing their brothers because of geography differences.

But what did Christ say? He said, All will know that you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves.” John 13:35

(See, Jesus said his disciples would be ID’d, not so much by what they taught, but by how they acted, showing genuine love, transcending all boundaries…political, national, racial.) it’s easier to identify, rather than deciding between teachings.

Jesus really covered all the bases though, when Jesus told his disciples to “love your enemy.” Matthew 5:44

Good night.

 

[oldbadger]

Anyhow, I have been invited to a Jehovah's witness zoom meeting tomorrow, that I shall attend if I don't have a group. But I could NEVER be a Jehovah's witness, because I see 0% chance JW's have the truth, and 100% certainty that they do NOT have the truth!

I have some questions for Jehovah's witnesses:

“Who is your authority Jehovah's witnesses, and why should we trust him/her/it? With countless denominations, all using Scripture and all claiming to be correct, what assurance can we have that the Watchtower’s interpretations are accurate?”

Before Jesus Christ came to earth, he was Michael, prince of the angels, Jehovah's witnesses claim. Although I'm fond of JW teaching that, because my favorite girl to walk the earth is named Lia which means "Lioness", her last name means "Pet lamb" and Jesus was the Lion of Judah and the lamb of God, and her middle name is feminine for Michael, which means "She who is like God". So, that must mean JW's are right, right?

However, that is the only thing I like about that teaching!

The Bible is silent with regard to any evidence supporting such a claim.

if you had walked up to any of the twelve apostles and asked him who Jesus was, none would have said, “But of course, he’s Michael the Archangel!”

The book of Hebrews states, “To which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my son’? . . . Let all the angels of God worship him. . . . Your throne, O God, stands firm forever. . . . O Lord, you established the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands . . . to which of the angels has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand’?” (Heb. 1).

Also , I'm not too thrilled about the name Jehovah...

When the topic of the name of God comes up, first address the fact that the New Testament Greek always uses the word Lord and never Jehovah, even in quotes from the Old Testament. Encyclopedia Judaica, Webster’s Encyclopedia, Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, and many other authoritative sources agree that the title Jehovah is erroneous and was never used by the Jews.

So where did the name Jehovah come from? According to the Watchtower’s own publication, Aid to Bible Understanding, “The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century.

According to Revelation 7 and 14, only 144,000 people will inherit the heavenly kingdom. All others who are saved will reside forever on a paradise earth.

Look up Revelation 7 and read it from beginning to end. You’ll notice that if the seventh chapter of Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins. I guess I'm out of luck because I'm not a virgin and I'm not Jewish! (The Bible can be so stupid sometimes obviously! That is why Jesus never told anyone to read the Bible , and no where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the final authority on anything, and Jesus never even left the early Christians with a Bible. He left them with a Church .

The few Scriptures that were available, were read by a tiny percent of Christians who could read, no one knew what the correct New Testament Canon was, and those who could read , often did not have access to any Scriptures.)

Jehovah's witnesses believe: "everlasting punishment is a lie invented by Satan. Such an idea is not in the Bible, which teaches that hell is only a place of rest in hope where the dead are conscious of nothing and feel no pain. "

When discussing hell with a Jehovah’s Witness, you must address the issue of the immortal human soul, since Witnesses deny its existence. Address the nature of the afterlife in general before dealing with the issue of hellfire in particular.

In the Old Testament, Isaiah 14:9-17 indicates clearly that the dead are conscious, and the New Testament tells the same story. In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how, after Jesus died on the cross, he “preached to the spirits in prison.” If the dead were aware of nothing, his preaching would have been futile.

So to be absent from the body is not to be unconscious; rather, it enables one to be home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent or a tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt 10:28). Our souls live after the death of our bodies, since John “saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . .” (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8) and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).

Those who led an unrighteous life are just as conscious of their punishment as the just are of their joy. If one is in hell, “he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest” (Rev. 14:11). This is an “everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41-46).

Although I like the Jehovah's witness idea that there is no place of eternal suffering, it doesn't change the fact that it is HIGHLY UNBIBLICAL!

Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies and “existing in torments . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . ‘I am in anguish in this blazing fire'” (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This Valley of Hinnom was located southeast of Jerusalem and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were burned continuously day and night. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, “where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out” (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this “everlasting fire” (Matt. 18:8) will come “weeping and the gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12). Now, if hell were “a place of rest in hope” as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus would not have chosen such contradictory illustrations to convey this.

Each one of the above topics could be a long conversation. So know that your charity and willingness to share your faith will leave a mark on the hearts and minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Show Jehovah's witnesses that you are devoted to the Word of God. So even if you can’t remember all the verses at the right time, know that kindness has converted more souls than eloquence ever will.

Also, I could never be Jehovah's witness, because it is a tiny percentage of Christianity, that is essentially saying that every Church on the face of the earth (before the man-made invention of the Jehovah's witness denomination was invented), was living a lie and praying to Demons!

Century after century, all those monks, nuns, priests, and people who dedicated their whole life to God and studying his word , rewriting new copies of the Bible, were preaching lies, and Jesus was such a lousy shepherd, that he let every Church on earth go astray century after century for over 1800 years, before God started his first true Church!

To me that is EXTREMELY depressing and disgusting, and means that God simply was a lousy guide and shepherd! If God didn't care about humanity enough , to give them a single Church that spoke the truth for 1800 years, how can I trust him to guide me?

Plus, there is NOTHING in the Bible that says the Bible is the final authority on anything, and Jesus made it very clear that those who do not eat his flesh and drink his blood, they have no life in them. At every last supper account , Jesus spoke literally about the bread and wine being his body and blood! Jehovah's witnesses don't believe that, so if Jesus was lying about that, what else was he lying about?

Please pray that I don't cause problems at this JW zoom tomorrow!

Now why are you going to ask all that? What's the point?
You've already told us that you can NEVER be a JW........ true?

So there's nothing to ask really, unless you just want to show off how smart you are to the JWs.

 

[Bree]

Now why are you going to ask all that? What's the point?
You've already told us that you can NEVER be a JW........ true?

So there's nothing to ask really, unless you just want to show off how smart you are to the JWs.

Well i'm super impressed that he's actually considering attending one of our meetings

 

[oldbadger]

Well i'm super impressed that he's actually considering attending one of our meetings

Are 'Zoom' meetings group meetings? If it's one-on-one then you could spend hours listening to the depth of knowledge and wisdom that a non-believer might want to show to you. But if it's a group...... .

A local neighbour used to lean on his door frame and expound all his clever stuff to JWs before the lockdown saved them from his outstanding debating abilities....well....... monologue abilities.
It was my sad fate to be placed next to him at a company dinner once, and he told the whole table about his fantastic and clever questions and points (towards JWs) and nobody could shut him up. The death of a fine dinner by 'unbelievable boredom'. Why can't such people just have a 'No Callers' sign on their gate posts?.....a truly humane message to all?

But if you want to talk, then that's great.

 

[nPeace]

I was invited. I would attend a zoom meeting if you invited me or anyone at RF for that matter?

Any volunteers?

Anyone wanna do a face to face zoom with Spiderman?

They also invite ones to have a free home Bible study. Did you accept?
There is always the option to decline, and we are actually happy with your honest answers.

However, I think attending the meetings is a good choice, even if the intentions for doing so are not necessarily favorable.
Life is fill of surprises, and nothing is too difficult for Jehovah to deal with.

 

[nPeace]

Are 'Zoom' meetings group meetings? If it's one-on-one then you could spend hours listening to the depth of knowledge and wisdom that a non-believer might want to show to you. But if it's a group...... .

A local neighbour used to lean on his door frame and expound all his clever stuff to JWs before the lockdown saved them from his outstanding debating abilities....well....... monologue abilities.
It was my sad fate to be placed next to him at a company dinner once, and he told the whole table about his fantastic and clever questions and points (towards JWs) and nobody could shut him up. The death of a fine dinner by 'unbelievable boredom'. Why can't such people just have a 'No Callers' sign on their gate posts?.....a truly humane message to all?

But if you want to talk, then that's great.

LOL. I think by now, some of us would see the clear mark on their forehead... "Come waste your time". LOL However, I think they prey on those less experienced Witnesses.
The GB is helping us to avoid falling victim to such prey, by teaching us to discern those worth spending time with.
I think some of us are catching on.
I once was less experienced, but of course experience comes with time, so I am sure you will find that will happen less and less, as the friends adjust.

It's good you were able to hold your dinner in though. Otherwise, that might have ended the show, but in a most unpleasant way.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Anyhow, I have been invited to a Jehovah's witness zoom meeting tomorrow, that I shall attend if I don't have a group. But I could NEVER be a Jehovah's witness, because I see 0% chance JW's have the truth, and 100% certainty that they do NOT have the truth!

I have some questions for Jehovah's witnesses:

“Who is your authority Jehovah's witnesses, and why should we trust him/her/it? With countless denominations, all using Scripture and all claiming to be correct, what assurance can we have that the Watchtower’s interpretations are accurate?”

Before Jesus Christ came to earth, he was Michael, prince of the angels, Jehovah's witnesses claim. Although I'm fond of JW teaching that, because my favorite girl to walk the earth is named Lia which means "Lioness", her last name means "Pet lamb" and Jesus was the Lion of Judah and the lamb of God, and her middle name is feminine for Michael, which means "She who is like God". So, that must mean JW's are right, right?

However, that is the only thing I like about that teaching!

The Bible is silent with regard to any evidence supporting such a claim.

if you had walked up to any of the twelve apostles and asked him who Jesus was, none would have said, “But of course, he’s Michael the Archangel!”

The book of Hebrews states, “To which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my son’? . . . Let all the angels of God worship him. . . . Your throne, O God, stands firm forever. . . . O Lord, you established the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands . . . to which of the angels has he ever said, ‘Sit at my right hand’?” (Heb. 1).

Also , I'm not too thrilled about the name Jehovah...

When the topic of the name of God comes up, first address the fact that the New Testament Greek always uses the word Lord and never Jehovah, even in quotes from the Old Testament. Encyclopedia Judaica, Webster’s Encyclopedia, Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, and many other authoritative sources agree that the title Jehovah is erroneous and was never used by the Jews.

So where did the name Jehovah come from? According to the Watchtower’s own publication, Aid to Bible Understanding, “The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century.

According to Revelation 7 and 14, only 144,000 people will inherit the heavenly kingdom. All others who are saved will reside forever on a paradise earth.

Look up Revelation 7 and read it from beginning to end. You’ll notice that if the seventh chapter of Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins. I guess I'm out of luck because I'm not a virgin and I'm not Jewish! (The Bible can be so stupid sometimes obviously! That is why Jesus never told anyone to read the Bible , and no where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the final authority on anything, and Jesus never even left the early Christians with a Bible. He left them with a Church .

The few Scriptures that were available, were read by a tiny percent of Christians who could read, no one knew what the correct New Testament Canon was, and those who could read , often did not have access to any Scriptures.)

Jehovah's witnesses believe: "everlasting punishment is a lie invented by Satan. Such an idea is not in the Bible, which teaches that hell is only a place of rest in hope where the dead are conscious of nothing and feel no pain. "

When discussing hell with a Jehovah’s Witness, you must address the issue of the immortal human soul, since Witnesses deny its existence. Address the nature of the afterlife in general before dealing with the issue of hellfire in particular.

In the Old Testament, Isaiah 14:9-17 indicates clearly that the dead are conscious, and the New Testament tells the same story. In 1 Peter 3:19, the apostle tells his audience how, after Jesus died on the cross, he “preached to the spirits in prison.” If the dead were aware of nothing, his preaching would have been futile.

So to be absent from the body is not to be unconscious; rather, it enables one to be home with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent or a tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt 10:28). Our souls live after the death of our bodies, since John “saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . .” (Rev. 6:9-11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8) and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).

Those who led an unrighteous life are just as conscious of their punishment as the just are of their joy. If one is in hell, “he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest” (Rev. 14:11). This is an “everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41-46).

Although I like the Jehovah's witness idea that there is no place of eternal suffering, it doesn't change the fact that it is HIGHLY UNBIBLICAL!

Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies and “existing in torments . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . ‘I am in anguish in this blazing fire'” (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This Valley of Hinnom was located southeast of Jerusalem and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were burned continuously day and night. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, “where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out” (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this “everlasting fire” (Matt. 18:8) will come “weeping and the gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12). Now, if hell were “a place of rest in hope” as the Watchtower teaches, Jesus would not have chosen such contradictory illustrations to convey this.

Each one of the above topics could be a long conversation. So know that your charity and willingness to share your faith will leave a mark on the hearts and minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Show Jehovah's witnesses that you are devoted to the Word of God. So even if you can’t remember all the verses at the right time, know that kindness has converted more souls than eloquence ever will.

Also, I could never be Jehovah's witness, because it is a tiny percentage of Christianity, that is essentially saying that every Church on the face of the earth (before the man-made invention of the Jehovah's witness denomination was invented), was living a lie and praying to Demons!

Century after century, all those monks, nuns, priests, and people who dedicated their whole life to God and studying his word , rewriting new copies of the Bible, were preaching lies, and Jesus was such a lousy shepherd, that he let every Church on earth go astray century after century for over 1800 years, before God started his first true Church!

To me that is EXTREMELY depressing and disgusting, and means that God simply was a lousy guide and shepherd! If God didn't care about humanity enough , to give them a single Church that spoke the truth for 1800 years, how can I trust him to guide me?

Plus, there is NOTHING in the Bible that says the Bible is the final authority on anything, and Jesus made it very clear that those who do not eat his flesh and drink his blood, they have no life in them. At every last supper account , Jesus spoke literally about the bread and wine being his body and blood! Jehovah's witnesses don't believe that, so if Jesus was lying about that, what else was he lying about?

Please pray that I don't cause problems at this JW zoom tomorrow!

I assume you are going to ask these questions tomorrow? That should be fun.

 

[BigBill88]

I Judge them by their Prophets they have predicted the end of the world since 1780 with failed predictions over and over and over I believe the next one is 2033 and if that doesn't work they will come up with a new date and on and on and on.

 

[BigBill88]

I remember A JW calling and asking if I wanted to be with Christ for a Thousand years on earth and if I became a JW I could and that only JWs have this privilege but I could still go to heaven just after the 2nd Judgment . I said ah thats ok I'll just sleep for thousand years and skip earth said I'm not interested coming back I said I will be in heaven why would I want to come back? She really was lost for words.

 

[Spiderman]

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
&
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.

 

[oldbadger]

The GB is helping us to avoid falling victim to such prey, by teaching us to discern those worth spending time with.
I think some of us are catching on.

Ah! You a Brit? Great!
I can't ever be a JW, but over 30 years ago a JW couple couldn't find a place to park their car on our road and I told them that they could always park on our spare driveway. Ever since then they have called, enjoyed my wife's coffee and discussed and debated the gospels with me....they add still keep in contact and I hope they can come back now that lovkdownn is over.

 

[Spiderman]

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
&
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.

This is one example of how Unbiblical Jehovah's witnesses are...

 

[Spiderman]

This is one example of how Unbiblical Jehovah's witnesses are...

The the Bible often does not mean what it says, and the Bible does make it very clear that people will be rewarded or punished in the afterlife, and the Bible makes it very clear that the dead go on living, and because the Bible also makes it very clear people are supposed to obey and submit to the church, and because that is what the Christians did originally (rather than obey the Bible), and it is a verifiable fact that the First Christians were not Bible Christians, I see this whole idea that the Bible alone is the soul rule of authority, to be complete confusing madness!

The Bible is impossible to ever use as a final authority, because everybody claims to have the correct interpretation of scripture, and there are over 30,000 denominations of protestantism, all claiming they have the truth! Also, because Jehovah's witnesses reject the Trinity and the Divinity of christ, they are not even christian, and they are actually a bit of an anti-christian group!

Nothing confused and divided people more, than when the Sola scriptura Doctrine was invented by man! Jesus Christ did not leave the early Christians with the bible, he left them with a church, and he promised that the Holy Spirit would guide the church!

A person has to have an authority outside of the Bible To help them interpret the scriptures! Jesus built a church for that! Nowhere does the bible say that the Bible is the final authority on anything!

The scriptures have many verses that say the exact opposite of what other verses say! It leads people to opposite opinions and many different denominations!

Scripture says, "if they refuse to listen to the church, let them be to you as a pagan and a tax collector! "

There is one church that dates back to the time of christ! Jehovah's witnesses were not founded by Christ, and were not invented by man until the 19th century!

Which is why they have a 0% chance of having the truth, and 100% guarantee that they don't have it!

 

[Vee]

Please pray that I don't cause problems at this JW zoom tomorrow!

Don't worry. The administrator of the meeting has a mute button available.

Hope you enjoy the meeting. Keep an open mind. You might actually get something positive out of the experience.

 

[cataway]

This is one example of how Unbiblical Jehovah's witnesses are...

2 peter 3:3
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires"

ya . we have seen you coming ,

 

[Spiderman]

2 peter 3:3
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires"

ya . we have seen you coming ,

The Scripture also warns of people who create divisions, who twist the Scriptures to their own destruction, and strongly warns of those who will not listen to the Church!

 

[Spiderman]

Don't worry. The administrator of the meeting has a mute button available.

Hope you enjoy the meeting. Keep an open mind. You might actually get something positive out of the experience.

 

[Spiderman]

2 peter 3:3
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires"

ya . we have seen you coming ,

The Catholic Church has a disgusting history in some ways, but it is no more disgusting than the history of God's chosen people in Scripture, where God commanded them to commit repeated genocides against those of other ethnicities and faiths!

Also, the Catholic Church has done more to feed the hungry, care for the poor and needy, educate people, house the homeless, and do works of charity like build hospitals,( all the works of mercy that Jesus commanded his followers to perform) more than any other Christian denomination or institution in the history of the world!

The Catholic Church, when I read the Catechism, actually seems like the Holy Spirit inspired it. I am not Catholic, but the Catholic Church was still historically obviously the Church that Jesus Christ created and founded!

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ, and is the only Church on earth that Christ founded, that dates back to Christ!

Jehovah's witnesses are a man-made modern religion, that is very unbiblical. I explained to you multiple times where the Bible sometimes teaches the opposite of what Jehovah's witnesses teach.

Jesus knew it would be difficult to interpret an ancient outdated text like the Bible, so he built a Church, and the Holy Spirit guides the Church.

The word of God is not limited to a book.

Also, Jesus didn't leave the early Christians with a Bible. He left them with a Church.

 

[Orbit]

So how did it go?

 

[Bree]

Are 'Zoom' meetings group meetings? If it's one-on-one then you could spend hours listening to the depth of knowledge and wisdom that a non-believer might want to show to you. But if it's a group...... .

A local neighbour used to lean on his door frame and expound all his clever stuff to JWs before the lockdown saved them from his outstanding debating abilities....well....... monologue abilities.
It was my sad fate to be placed next to him at a company dinner once, and he told the whole table about his fantastic and clever questions and points (towards JWs) and nobody could shut him up. The death of a fine dinner by 'unbelievable boredom'. Why can't such people just have a 'No Callers' sign on their gate posts?.....a truly humane message to all?

But if you want to talk, then that's great.

the zoom meetings are conducted just like our regular meetings. We moved the meetings to zoom right at the beginning of the pandemic in 2020 and they have been going ever since.

I dont mind seeing those 'do no knock' signs on the doors... i usually leave a note in the letterbox instead