I Believe That I've Found A Group Of Like Minded.

[sun rise]

Most don't. The concept of humans having inherent rights stems from Jewish and Christian theology and philosophy, and that laid the foundation for the concept of human rights.

That's not what the OP was about. It was about ethics not inherent rights.

 

[blü 2]

I'm talking about religion, not philosophy. Greco-Roman paganism does not contain the idea of inherent human rights.

Neither does Judaism. And Christianity even to this day exalts kingship; the relationship of the king to God is stamped deep on European history. Paul and Jesus preach subordination to God and to the Church; they don't preach independence of thought or skeptical enquiry.

When that idea entered Greek philosophy, polytheism was on the wane and Zeus was gradually being transformed into a universal father figure like Yahweh, who cared about the weak and oppressed, and not the petty, vindictive being we find in the Homeric myths.

The imperial language of Judea was Greek (whatever Monty Python says) and Greek thought had influenced Jewish thought from the time Alexander conquered parts of the Levant and North Africa around 300 BCE.

Christianity began as a very small Jewish sect in, apparently, Jerusalem, (There's not a single contemporary record of it.) Its concern was the imminent coming of the Kingdom which the Son of Man (apparently Jesus, but not so specified) would establish on earth in the lifetime of Jesus' audience (Mark 9:1, Mark 13:28, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:32, Luke 9:27), and the message was very simple: Get ready!

And, as Jesus said, pay your taxes meanwhile.

(John is different in this respect; by c. 100 CE when John was written, that idea is plainly, ahm, unhelpful, and is quietly dropped.)

I see nothing about democracy in early Christian thought ─ the instant Christianity began to grow, it had bishops to tell you what to do and think. I see kingship as a centerpiece fixture in Christian thought until the 17th century, and it's still close enough to touch even now.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Neither does Judaism. And Christianity even to this day exalts kingship; the relationship of the king to God is stamped deep on European history. Paul and Jesus preach subordination to God and to the Church; they don't preach independence of thought or skeptical enquiry.
The imperial language of Judea was Greek (whatever Monty Python says) and Greek thought had influenced Jewish thought from the time Alexander conquered parts of the Levant and North Africa around 300 BCE.

Christianity began as a very small Jewish sect in, apparently, Jerusalem, (There's not a single contemporary record of it.) Its concern was the imminent coming of the Kingdom which the Son of Man (apparently Jesus, but not so specified) would establish on earth in the lifetime of Jesus' audience (Mark 9:1, Mark 13:28, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:32, Luke 9:27), and the message was very simple: Get ready!

And, as Jesus said, pay your taxes meanwhile.

(John is different in this respect; by c. 100 CE when John was written, that idea is plainly, ahm, unhelpful, and is quietly dropped.)

I see nothing about democracy in early Christian thought ─ the instant Christianity began to grow, it had bishops to tell you what to do and think. I see kingship as a centerpiece fixture in Christian thought until the 17th century, and it's still close enough to touch even now.

I'm not trying to start a debate. @Augustus would be better at explaining it.

 

[MonkeyFire]

What is humanism? What are the principles of humanism? - Quora

I'm not a humanist as it is inhumane to true lovers, and natural believers, and is inconsiderate of fate. Knowledge is part of religion, it does not need science. I have my own religion, were called ground hogs. We have a sense of hope. We believe in fraternal religion and protect cosmic law aka metaphysics, and secularity is evil and devilish at all.

 

[Augustus]

Cyrus was a Zoroastrian and Zoroastrianism has similarities with Abrahamic religions. He was also referred to as "messiah" in the Hebrew Bible. It's possible he was influenced by Judaism due to cultural exposure.

Cyrus was (as far as we can tell) neither a Zoroastrian nor a key figure in the history of human rights (which seems to be something that the Shah of Iran made up in the 70s to boost his own status).

The Cyrus cylinder is just an inscription saying how great Cyrus is which is typical of the period, but when people want show Human Rights are natural and universal they need to find examples from 'diverse' cultures to fit into their narrative.

 

[blü 2]

I'm not trying to start a debate. @Augustus would be better at explaining it.

Peace in our time!

Go well.

 

[PruePhillip]

I Believe That I've Found A Group Of Like Minded. It's called; American Ethical Union.

It's kind of a Godless morality - where everyone does what is right in their own eyes.
There is no Standard of behavior, and there's no judgment for those whose morals
lead them to do things others think are wrong.
Remember, most conflicts occur when two people have different ideas about what is
right and wrong.

 

[MichaelleahciM]

It's kind of a Godless morality - where everyone does what is right in their own eyes.
There is no Standard of behavior, and there's no judgment for those whose morals
lead them to do things others think are wrong.
Remember, most conflicts occur when two people have different ideas about what is
right and wrong.

Hmm, Interesting thought, but, It's similar to Unitarian-Universalist. Also if your speaking of Morality as in only a man and a women may marry, your correct that TAEU leaves that up to the individual. They state that what ever you personally wish to believe in; God, No God, Maybe God, and specific faiths, that is your prerogative, but don't preach it, keep it to yourself type of approach. It's also vaguely like Baha'i in that it's seems to have a goal of Unity among every person on Earth, creating Unity, Justice, then Peace will come overall. I can't see how you could say no standard of behavior though?
What beliefs do Ethical Societies teach?

• Freedom of Belief: When we stimulate our thinking with new insights and inspirations, our understanding of the world evolves, and we realize the full capacity of our human spirit.
• Eliciting the Best: It is by acting in a way that encourages the finest characteristics in others that we bring out the best in ourselves.
• Respect for Human Worth: We treat all people as having an inherent capacity for fairness, kindness, and living ethically.
• Ethical Living: When we put into practice ethical principles such as love, justice, honesty, and forgiveness, we experience harmony within ourselves and in our relationships.
• Reverence for Life: We cultivate the spiritual dimension in life by experiencing our interdependent connections to humanity, nature, and our inner values.

What does ethics mean?
Ethics defines the elements essential to human well-being and proposes guiding principles to generate an ethical culture. Ethics also refers to the specific values, standards, rules, and agreements that people adopt for conducting their lives. Ethics, most broadly, is the study of human behavior and its consequences in the light of what is ideally possible. For example, ethicists might study a society’s mores or morals to determine what effect they would have on humankind if they were used as universal standards. Ethics are not merely social conventions, like table manners. Rather, ethics define the social conditions necessary for human beings to thrive.

What are some principles of an Ethical Society?
The Eight Commitments of Ethical Culture were written in collaboration with Leaders and members of the American Ethical Union, coordinated by Lois Kathleen Kellerman, Leader Emeritus of the Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture.

1. Ethics is Central: The most central human issue in our lives is creating a more humane environment.
2. Ethics Begins with Choice: Creating a more humane environment begins by affirming the need to make significant choices in our lives.
3. We Choose to Treat Each Other as Ends, not Means:
   To enable us to be whole in a fragmented world, we choose to treat each other as unique individuals having intrinsic worth.
4. We Seek to Act with Integrity: Treating one another as ends requires that we learn to act with integrity. This includes keeping commitments, and being honest, open, caring and responsive.
5. We are Committed to Educate Ourselves: Personal progress is possible, both in wisdom and social life. Learning how to build ethical relationships and cultivate a humane community is a life-long endeavor.
6. Self Reflection and Our Social Nature Require Us to Shape a More Humane World: Growth of the human spirit is rooted in self-reflection, but can only come to full flower in community. This is because people are social, needing both primary relationships and larger supportive groups to become fully human. Our social nature requires that we reach beyond ourselves to decrease suffering and increase creativity in the world.
7. Democratic Process is Essential to Our Task: The democratic process is essential to a humane social order because respect for the worth of persons requires democratic process, which elicits and allows a greater expression of human capacities.
8. Life Itself Inspires a Natural “Religious” Response: Although awareness of impending death intensifies the human quest, the mystery of life itself, and the need to belong, are the primary factors motivating human religious response.

 

[shunyadragon]

Most don't. The concept of humans having inherent rights stems from Jewish and Christian theology and philosophy, and that laid the foundation for the concept of human rights.

Actually no. the concept of inherent rights evolved as the rights of individuals and obligations to community in all the cutures of the world, for example the Greeks and Confucuius in China.. .

 

[PruePhillip]

Hmm, Interesting thought, but, It's similar to Unitarian-Universalist. Also if your speaking of Morality as in only a man and a women may marry, your correct that TAEU leaves that up to the individual. They state that what ever you personally wish to believe in; God, No God, Maybe God, and specific faiths, that is your prerogative, but don't preach it, keep it to yourself type of approach. It's also vaguely like Baha'i in that it's seems to have a goal of Unity among every person on Earth, creating Unity, Justice, then Peace will come overall. I can't see how you could say no standard of behavior though?

How do we approach the 'ethics' of 'helping the poor.'?
Is helping the poor really 'ethical' ? Maybe not - many poor don't like 'greed' and 'materialism'
And do we give the 'poor' handouts, welfare and sympathy or do we help them through education,
trade, open societies, investment, employment etc..?
So we can be 'ethical' but our 'ethics' are opposed by another's 'ethics.' And who is right?

Those Japanese pilots bombing Pearl Harbor were 'ethical' in that they were defending their home
land against the rising power of America and its policies to impoverish Japan. Those Americans
fighting the Japanese were ethical for almost the same reasons.

 

[shunyadragon]

It's kind of a Godless morality - where everyone does what is right in their own eyes.
There is no Standard of behavior, and there's no judgment for those whose morals
lead them to do things others think are wrong.
Remember, most conflicts occur when two people have different ideas about what is
right and wrong.

Ther never has bee a culture in the history of humanity that has.'Godless morality' that you equate with 'anything goes.' For example; Confucianism andTaoism did not have the belief in a Theistic God, but had moral system that rivally anything in the West.

 

[shunyadragon]

Notice I didn't say that "none of them do". Cyrus was a Zoroastrian and Zoroastrianism has similarities with Abrahamic religions. He was also referred to as "messiah" in the Hebrew Bible. It's possible he was influenced by Judaism due to cultural exposure.

. . . Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrians and Babylonians due to cultural exposure, or possibly an exchange.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I Believe That I've Found A Group Of Like Minded.

You need something like that? I happily walk alone.

 

[PruePhillip]

Ther never has bee a culture in the history of humanity that has.'Godless morality' For example; Confucianism andTaoism did not have the belief in a Theistic God, but had moral system that rivally anything in the West.

Postmodernism acts like a "Godless morality" which holds there is no absolute 'truth'
but only opinions - except opinions about Postmodernism, that is.
Not
So too do the current rioters in America - they hold themselves to be moral people
upholding moral causes.
Not

 

[PruePhillip]

. . . Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrians and Babylonians due to cultural exposure, or possibly an exchange.

Really, all that stuff about Abraham and Genesis is just Babylonian
stuff? What religion in Babylonian times influenced the Jews? I thought
the Jews after Babylon were a lot less pagan (attested by archaeology)
and a lot less like Babylon - not more like.

 

[shunyadragon]

Really, all that stuff about Abraham and Genesis is just Babylonian
stuff? What religion in Babylonian times influenced the Jews? I thought
the Jews after Babylon were a lot less pagan (attested by archaeology)
and a lot less like Babylon - not more like.

No not attested by archaeology. Archaeology confirms Writing, the mythology of Genesis and the flood were first recorded in Sumarian, Babylonian and Canaanite writings. The codes of laws were first found in the Sumarian and Babylonian writtings. Actually the writings of Judaism are very very late.
Zorastrian religion influenced Judaism.

 

[shunyadragon]

Postmodernism acts like a "Godless morality" which holds there is no absolute 'truth'
but only opinions - except opinions about Postmodernism, that is.
Not
So too do the current rioters in America - they hold themselves to be moral people
upholding moral causes.
Not

It is a good thing that 'absolute morality' is not practical and in and of itself the claims of absolute causes wars and conflict, because morality has never been absolute in the histolr of humanity. The Bible endorses slavery of foreigners, and does not forbid slavery. It is a good thing that moral standards do change and most reject the (absolute?truth which never existed) moral standards of the Bible.

 

[MichaelleahciM]

How do we approach the 'ethics' of 'helping the poor.'?
Is helping the poor really 'ethical' ? Maybe not - many poor don't like 'greed' and 'materialism'
And do we give the 'poor' handouts, welfare and sympathy or do we help them through education,
trade, open societies, investment, employment etc..?
So we can be 'ethical' but our 'ethics' are opposed by another's 'ethics.' And who is right?

Those Japanese pilots bombing Pearl Harbor were 'ethical' in that they were defending their home
land against the rising power of America and its policies to impoverish Japan. Those Americans
fighting the Japanese were ethical for almost the same reasons.

To me: Poor is a construct of the historical and current Pyramid system of money and power. Poor are developed by purposely keeping human down for use as cheap Labor Costs.
And all War is a construct of wealthy men, sometimes both side colluding to create profits for both sides. The wealthy are enriched and the poor kept under control when they start joining together to end the status quo. Once the poor realize war is an economic activity where they will always lose and has zero to do with be a hero. The wealthy will no longer have control. Hitler never killed a single person, it was all the other men who were eager to kill for him and then other leaders who threatened the lives of the young men if they refused to kill for them, for making profits. Ethical is no one is abused, used, harmed, left to fend for themselves. Cut and dry.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Peace in our time!

Go well.

You, too. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it as it wasn't the point of this thread.

 

[PruePhillip]

To me: Poor is a construct of the historical and current Pyramid system of money and power. Poor are developed by purposely keeping human down for use as cheap Labor Costs.
And all War is a construct of wealthy men, sometimes both side colluding to create profits for both sides. The wealthy are enriched and the poor kept under control when they start joining together to end the status quo. Once the poor realize war is an economic activity where they will always lose and has zero to do with be a hero. The wealthy will no longer have control. Hitler never killed a single person, it was all the other men who were eager to kill for him and then other leaders who threatened the lives of the young men if they refused to kill for them, for making profits. Ethical is no one is abused, used, harmed, left to fend for themselves. Cut and dry.

It's often said in various ways - give ten people a dollar each and very soon one guy will have
ten dollars and the rest will have nothing. You are never going to stop that.
I marvel to see people too poor for even decent wear purchasing cigarettes, chips and Coke
at little gas stations, at premium prices. What do you do? Tell them these are not good to
consume, and in any case they can buy them at a supermarket? No, your 'help' to the poor
is constraining their freedoms. Same with poor areas where they cut down all their trees. It
costs money to remove trees.Rich like trees, poor don't. Why? We simply don't know.
No-one is keeping the poor down. 75% of 'poor' Americans have air conditioning in their cars.
They live far better material lives than the Egyptian Pharaohs.
Yes, Hitler ordered the deaths of millions. He is culpable for that. In many case his subordinates
thought this was madness, particularly on the Russian front where gaining allies was needful.