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I believe Satan has brain washed most Christians/people.

Mestemia

Advocatus Diaboli
Premium Member
If the judge decided that the only course of action in the case is to kill everyone save one family, yes.

See, unlike yourself, I do not give god a free pass.

Why is it that you give god a free pass?
I mean, where in the Bible does it say that God is above his law?

Do unto others as you have done to you.
Except god, right?

The standards you use to judge others will be the same standards used to judge you.
Except God, right?

I cannot help but wonder if your god is as petty as you make him out to be.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
The judges do not pass judgement to the criminal's babies and his pets, usually. If he did, he would be considered a crazy psychopath by basically anyone.

Ciao

- viole
True, a human judge would not pass judgment on anyone other than the specific criminal, but God is not a human judge. God as Creator of all life is the Judge of all life who knows all, sees all, and has the wisdom when and how to pass judgment, from my perspective.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
If the judge decided that the only course of action in the case is to kill everyone save one family, yes.

See, unlike yourself, I do not give god a free pass.
If there were more than one family to be saved then God would save them because He is a righteous Judge who innately must do all things right and good.

Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” Genesis 18:2


Whether a flood, fire, or whatever, God always gives warning and abundant time for anyone who chooses to change and escape judgment. I do not give God a "free pass" , but many people seem to want a free pass for their sin. I do give God the respect for His position as the Source of all life and the ultimate Authority and Judge.
 

Mestemia

Advocatus Diaboli
Premium Member
If there were more than one family to be saved then God would save them because He is a righteous Judge who innately must do all things right and good.

Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” Genesis 18:2


Whether a flood, fire, or whatever, God always gives warning and abundant time for anyone who chooses to change and escape judgment. I do not give God a "free pass" , but many people seem to want a free pass for their sin. I do give God the respect for His position as the Source of all life and the ultimate Authority and Judge.
You do give your god a free pass.
When god commits genocide you cannot even use the correct term "genocide", even though you have found a way to justify it for yourself..
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
If there were more than one family to be saved then God would save them because He is a righteous Judge who innately must do all things right and good.

Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” Genesis 18:2


Whether a flood, fire, or whatever, God always gives warning and abundant time for anyone who chooses to change and escape judgment. I do not give God a "free pass" , but many people seem to want a free pass for their sin. I do give God the respect for His position as the Source of all life and the ultimate Authority and Judge.

Obviously that is NOT the case - as we have all those murdered infants stories.

*
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Why is it that you give god a free pass?
I mean, where in the Bible does it say that God is above his law?

Do unto others as you have done to you.
Except god, right?

The standards you use to judge others will be the same standards used to judge you.
Except God, right?

I cannot help but wonder if your god is as petty as you make him out to be.

Like I said I don't give God a free pass as people seem to expect a license to sin, but after all if God is God then it pretty must stands to reason that He can do whatever He wants, yet He cannot be above the law since He is the source and entirety of the law. I believe and trust in the perfect goodness of God and know He does all things justly to bring about perfect eternal goodness for all who desire.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Obviously that is NOT the case - as we have all those murdered infants stories.

*
I believe that if God determined it was time to pass judgment and/or end a wicked people group or culture then this was the only appropriate action according to His ultimate knowledge and wisdom concerning the situation. As I have previously said God always gave years of warning for any to escape. As far as any babies, who were caught in such a culture at the time of judgment, they went to eternity and joy with the Lord.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
You do give your god a free pass.
When god commits genocide you cannot even use the correct term "genocide", even though you have found a way to justify it for yourself..
I won't use the term genocide because I think it is an inappropriate term to use in regard to God's judgment of sinful humans.
The definition of genocide- the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group
God does not pass judgment or destroy human life based on race, culture, or politics. Nor are His motives to eliminate people of any particular race, etc. as is the motive of genocide. God's motive and purpose is to eliminate and deal with SIN. Judgment is passed on sinful people, genocide is an incorrect and inapplicable term.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Why do you choose to blame God for the problems you've listed above rather than the sinfulness of humanity and the impact such sin has upon this planet? I think the mere fact that any of us are still even alive at all, even in luxury enough to chat about stuff online, reveals that God is sustaining things to an incredible degree despite the sin and destructiveness of humanity.
I wasn't blaming god. I was just pointing out there is too much going on to believe there is any deity watching over us. And if this god is watching over us, especially us over privileged Americans, this god really needs stop watching for us and pay attention to those who need help the most.
And when I was born--which was nearly dead--it wasn't god but human doctors who made me live.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I believe that if God determined it was time to pass judgment and/or end a wicked people group or culture then this was the only appropriate action according to His ultimate knowledge and wisdom concerning the situation. As I have previously said God always gave years of warning for any to escape. As far as any babies, who were caught in such a culture at the time of judgment, they went to eternity and joy with the Lord.

All people can not be wicked that is ridiculous. Babies and infants obviously are not wicked and disserve no murderous - torturous - death - because of other's sins.

You continually try to make excuses for a "God" that very obviously isn't a God. A God would not be so illogical, murderous, and psycho.

Also, as far as I know - Jesus doesn't say anyone goes directly to the father, - which would mean after their unrighteous, torture deaths, these babies rot in Sheol, awaiting the end with everyone else, and Final Judgment.

1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

As I have said over and over, - they were Jewish, - ALL the dead went to Sheol, - they SLEEP, - to await the prophesized Messiah, - whom brings about the end, - and then has Final Judgment of those in Sheol, - at which point they rise, or cease to exist.

That - Fallen Asleep in Christ - means the faithful that have died sleep peacefully in Christ - until his coming and Judgment. Just as with the Bosom of Abraham story. The righteous rest secure - until the judgment.

*
 

Mestemia

Advocatus Diaboli
Premium Member
I won't use the term genocide because I think it is an inappropriate term to use in regard to God's judgment of sinful humans.
The definition of genocide- the deliberate killing of people who belong to a particular racial, political, or cultural group
God does not pass judgment or destroy human life based on race, culture, or politics. Nor are His motives to eliminate people of any particular race, etc. as is the motive of genocide. God's motive and purpose is to eliminate and deal with SIN. Judgment is passed on sinful people, genocide is an incorrect and inapplicable term.
nit picking definitions to help fit your agenda does not impress.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Looks like Satan has brainwashed God.

Which god, which satan. There are many different ideas about what these labels mean, on the forums. Satan cannot brainwash the willing. That is adherence.
The Jewish god? They don't believe in Satan. The Xian God? They don't believe that Satan has the power to do that. /real xians.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Which god, which satan. There are many different ideas about what these labels mean, on the forums. Satan cannot brainwash the willing. That is adherence.
The Jewish god? They don't believe in Satan. The Xian God? They don't believe that Satan has the power to do that. /real xians.
Christians (or at least, many of them) do believe Satan has the power to lead Christians astray. He is the god of this world, after all. He temps people, he shows them false things, he does whatever he can to lead people away from god.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Christians (or at least, many of them) do believe Satan has the power to lead Christians astray. He is the god of this world, after all. He temps people, he shows them false things, he does whatever he can to lead people away from god.

Some Xians do believe that, true. It's unfounded, theologically, and even scripturally. The verse that states that satan is god of this world, if you read it in context, is clearly metaphorical, not literal. Yes, some also ''blame'' satan, as well, for their own actions. I guess we could say, some Xians, there is a division of belief concerning this, in Xianity, etc.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
All people can not be wicked that is ridiculous. Babies and infants obviously are not wicked and disserve no murderous - torturous - death - because of other's sins.

You continually try to make excuses for a "God" that very obviously isn't a God. A God would not be so illogical, murderous, and psycho.

Also, as far as I know - Jesus doesn't say anyone goes directly to the father, - which would mean after their unrighteous, torture deaths, these babies rot in Sheol, awaiting the end with everyone else, and Final Judgment.


*
I am not saying babies were wicked...but any babies in such a wicked, depraved society were potential victims of horrendous abuse or child sacrifice. If these babies lived to grow-up then they would become perpetuators of such evil violence. Once God had determined the judgment and destruction of people involved with such wicked practices, the babies could not very well been left alive on their own to suffer a slow death of starvation, to the elements or wild beasts, instant physical death would be better. Since they were innocent and too young to have sins accounted to them, I believe that although their physical bodies died their souls would have been taken directly into the heavenly realm to conscious joy and comfort.

"But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” 2 Samuel 12:23

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:22-23

But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. Luke 16:25

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:2-3





 

InChrist

Free4ever
nit picking definitions to help fit your agenda does not impress.
Whatever... it's an accurate and legitimate definition from Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Here is a little further information concerning genocide:

Some scholars identify 4 types of genocide (Frank Chalk and Kurt Jonassohn, cited by Helen Fein, in Encarta s.v. "Genocide"):

1. Ideological--where social homogeneity is sought, through 'ethnic cleansing' of internal 'pollutants'. This would include examples of the Nazi Holocaust, Armenian massacres, and the Cambodian purges. The Amalekite battle has no similarities to this, since these people were not internal 'dirt' that needed cleaning from within Israel. [In fact, the internal Amalekites were not affected at all, apparently. They are certainly not mentioned/singled out, like a genocidal propagandistic document would do.]

2. Retributive--is "undertaken to eliminate a real or potential threat", but again, these are "most likely to occur when one group dominates another group and fears its rebellion or when the other group actually rebels." The example given is that of the Hutu/Tutsi conflict in Rwanda. Again, this would not fit our case, since the Amalekites are NOT a part of Israel, or even under its control--for a 'rebellion' to be feared. The Amalekites had always been the aggressors against Israel, and Israel finally responded to this history.

3. Developmental is where genocide is undertaken for economic gain. The case in Paraguay in the 60's-70's where they deported/killed an estimated half of the native Indian population, to allow for the expansion of logging and cattle-raising enterprises in the nation's interior, would be an example. This doesn't fit our case either--the desert was not a lucrative resource at all, the puny belongings of the nomadic Amalekites (apart from their plunder of other peoples, of course) would not justify such a military action, and the Israelites were forbidden to prosper off the 'booty' anyway!

4. Despotic-- is intended to "spread terror among real or potential enemies". Examples of this are Ugandan presidents Idi Amin and Milton Obote, who killed hundreds of thousands of (internal) Ugandans who opposed their power. Again, this is internal power abuse, and not at all similar to our case.


What this means--although it would not bear on the main ethical sensitivity here--is that it is historically inaccurate to label this military action as 'genocidal'. (This is still the case, EVEN IF one ONLY is talking about the killing of the families of the warriors. There are none of the defining elements of genocide--as the term is used by experts--present in the accounts of this initiative.) Let's be clear on this--I am not exploring how to "justify a genocide", because in the first place, it is NOT genocide. [Interestingly, the only case we have in the bible of something approaching genocide is in the book of Esther. Haman, a prominent official, develops a plot in which the internal people will be allowed to attack, kill, and plunder the internal Jews in the nation. This is very close to genocide, and it is quite ironic that Haman is called an Agagite, and said to be an Amalekite by Josephus in Ant. 11.209.]
shouldn't the butchering of the Amalekite children be
considered war
crimes?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I am not saying babies were wicked...but any babies in such a wicked, depraved society were potential victims of horrendous abuse or child sacrifice. If these babies lived to grow-up then they would become perpetuators of such evil violence. Once God had determined the judgment and destruction of people involved with such wicked practices, the babies could not very well been left alive on their own to suffer a slow death of starvation, to the elements or wild beasts, instant physical death would be better. Since they were innocent and too young to have sins accounted to them, I believe that although their physical bodies died their souls would have been taken directly into the heavenly realm to conscious joy and comfort.

"But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” 2 Samuel 12:23

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:22-23

But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. Luke 16:25

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:2-3

Again - that is ridiculous.

Babies learn what they are taught growing up. - thus they could have been raised by the Hebrew - rather then killed.

It is an excuse you make for your God, whom murders the innocent for the sins of others.

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