I am Starting to Think God is Sadistic

[George-ananda]

He is rediscovering his own nature and experiencing is from a different perspective. As to why- I don't know. There may be a desire element- depends which school of thought you ask.

A rather twisted and sad existence from my perspective. Either it is a machine that can't help but do what it does, or it can only derive satisfaction from inflicting suffering upon itself.

Here is the best understanding I've heard.

The universe is all a great thought-form of Brahman. As Krishna says in the Gita: I separated Myself from Myself and became all this. In the end He will return Himself to Himself. Why? It is an emanation of Brahman's creative aspect. This is all a divine Sport/Drama/Play of the Lord. It is a drama with a happy ending for all, return to the Oneness by realizing we always were the Oneness. There are no good dramas without struggles in the middle.

 

[Koldo]

Here is the best understanding I've heard.

The universe is all a great thought-form of Brahman. As Krishna says in the Gita: I separated Myself from Myself and became all this. In the end He will return Himself to Himself. Why? It is an emanation of Brahman's creative aspect. This is all a divine Sport/Drama/Play of the Lord. It is a drama with a happy ending for all, return to the Oneness by realizing we always were the Oneness. There are no good dramas without struggles in the middle.

In other words, god is a machine fated to do what it does. It can't be helped. Its nature forces its hand to manifest an eternal cycle of suffering and happiness. :sad4:

 

[George-ananda]

In other words, god is a machine fated to do what it does. It can't be helped. Its nature forces its hand to manifest an eternal cycle of suffering and happiness. :sad4:

Where did I imply He was fated to do it? Or that He couldn't help it? Or that anything forces His hand? His nature is beyond our conceptualization.

 

[Koldo]

Where did I imply He was fated to do it? Or that He couldn't help it? Or that anything forces His hand? His nature is beyond our conceptualization.

Isn't that what you meant by: "Why? It is an emanation of Brahman's creative aspect." ? As in it HAS to manifest its creative aspect. Isn't that what you meant?

If that's not the case, then why doesn't god refrain from manifesting its creative aspect?

 

[George-ananda]

If that's not the case, then why doesn't god refrain from manifesting its creative aspect?

He could refrain or not refrain or manifest it differently. That question is above our pay grade.

 

[Koldo]

He could refrain or not refrain or manifest it differently. That question is above our pay grade.

Then your answer to the problem itself is : I don't know.

Correct?

 

[idav]

In other words, god is a machine fated to do what it does. It can't be helped. Its nature forces its hand to manifest an eternal cycle of suffering and happiness. :sad4:

I get led to the conclusion that God is all powerful and all knowing only in potential. Once the power is released it is all knowing in the sense that God will suffer along side us, struggle along side us, strive to be released from ignorance. The many manifestations of God are all possible because that is what the power grants and that power which resided in all of creation can be good or bad otherwise it wouldn't be all powerful. Humans have been granted the ability to see this a part from other animals that don't have this ability, this is what the sages and mystics have been saying for a long time, that we have this potential and to be released from ignorance we strive to unite with the one true God which is beyond even concepts of good and evil, but knowledge is also power and knowledge is the key to understanding why the world should all be on the same page. If we knew all each others thoughts there would be no problem. We would see our fellow mans struggles and experience it first hand and as such we would ALL strive to create pleasure for fellow man. We are all related and this is a very important concept to me a reason to say our brothers and sisters need each other to strive to become the best we all can be.

 

[George-ananda]

Then your answer to the problem itself is : I don't know.

Correct?

If the question is 'Why did Brahman create the universe as opposed to not creating it or creating it differently?' , the answer is 'the answer is above me; I don't know'.

 

[idav]

If that's not the case, then why doesn't god refrain from manifesting its creative aspect?

Why should God refrain himself? Everything is possible and this power is being shared which is a blessing and a curse because with power everything is possible for us as well. The question is why do we not choose to refrain ourselves? Ignorance! Suffering isn't our fault, we didn't create creation, it is how life strives for life at the expense of death and this understanding should give us solace because life and death are both illusions as well as the suffering we create for ourselves. Is the pleasure also and illusion? Probably so we strive to unite with the One. How does the universe know to strive for this for billions of years, it is unfathomable and as such the creation is so much greater than we could ever imagine in our feeble minds. Anyhow thats my opinion for what its worth.

edit: Anyhow as a pantheist I do struggle with this question quite a lot, quite an interesting thread.

 

[Koldo]

I get led to the conclusion that God is all powerful and all knowing only in potential.

As opposed to what? Practice ?

Once the power is released it is all knowing in the sense that God will suffer along side us, struggle along side us, strive to be released from ignorance.

Let's stop at this point: What you mean by 'released'?

 

[Koldo]

If the question is 'Why did Brahman create the universe as opposed to not creating it or creating it differently?' , the answer is 'the answer is above me; I don't know'.

Then it is the same as the traditional answer: God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Koldo]

Why should God refrain himself?

To avoid undesirable consequences.

Everything is possible and this power is being shared which is a blessing and a curse because with power everything is possible for us as well. The question is why do we not choose to refrain ourselves? Ignorance! Suffering isn't our fault, we didn't create creation, it is how life strives for life at the expense of death and this understanding should give us solace because life and death are both illusions as well as the suffering we create for ourselves.

Why do you think life and death are illusions?

Is the pleasure also and illusion? Probably so we strive to unite with the One. How does the universe know to strive for this for billions of years, it is unfathomable and as such the creation is so much greater than we could ever imagine in our feeble minds. Anyhow thats my opinion for what its worth.

edit: Anyhow as a pantheist I do struggle with this question quite a lot, quite an interesting thread.

How does pleasure being an illusion compels us to unite with the one?

 

[George-ananda]

Then it is the same as the traditional answer: God works in mysterious ways.

I would say more 'beyond our capacity to fully grasp' rather than mysterious.

When our consciousness expands into the Oneness, it will no longer be a mystery. There's a lot we can't grasp yet. A dog must wonder why humans do certain things; to a dog it's a mystery right; but if his intelligence expanded he could understand.

I'm surprised you didn't ask: Why is there Brahman? I don't know that either.

 

[idav]

To avoid undesirable consequences.



Why do you think life and death are illusions?

Cause as far as I know the universe is a closed system.

How does pleasure being an illusion compels us to unite with the one?

Cause ignorance is not bliss, knowledge is and all knowledge has to be attained through the one, the omniscient. Knowing all the suffering is one thing as all the pleasure would be known as well but it would also be understood and known that these things are illusions and can be surpassed only as oneness and true knowledge.

 

[Koldo]

I would say more 'beyond our capacity to fully grasp' rather than mysterious.

Potato. Patato.
It is the same thing on this context.

When our consciousness expands into the Oneness, it will no longer be a mystery. There's a lot we can't grasp yet. A dog must wonder why humans do certain things; to a dog it's a mystery right; but if his intelligence expanded he could understand.

Which is similar to: Everything will be revealed to you once you die.

I'm surprised you didn't ask: Why is there Brahman? I don't know that either.

Don't you believe that Brahman is god?

 

[Koldo]

Cause as far as I know the universe is a closed system.

And?
Why do you believe the death must entail the complete disappearance of any matter/energy that once belonged to an individual to don't be an illusion?

Cause ignorance is not bliss, knowledge is and all knowledge has to be attained through the one, the omniscient. Knowing all the suffering is one thing as all the pleasure would be known as well but it would also be understood and known that these things are illusions and can be surpassed only as oneness and true knowledge.

I don't think you have replied to what I asked about.

 

[Susanpalli,JW]

I can understand how you could think that way, if you believe that the evil we suffer comes from God. However, I believe God speaks to us through the Bible and the Bible explains that our trials don't come from God. (James 1:13 )
If we read the book of Job, it explains a lot about why God allows suffering for the time being.
I am certain that God will put an end to all suffering at the appointed time.

 

[Koldo]

I can understand how you could think that way, if you believe that the evil we suffer comes from God.

Actually, if all suffering came directly from god that would just be worse. That's not required.

However, I believe God speaks to us through the Bible and the Bible explains that our trials don't come from God. (James 1:13 )
If we read the book of Job, it explains a lot about why God allows suffering for the time being.

What does it explain?
God just says he is all powerful and that Job better not dare to question him.

I am certain that God will put an end to all suffering at the appointed time.

It is already problematic that he let it exist for even a second.

 

[George-ananda]

Don't you believe that Brahman is god?

Sort of. The word 'God' as it's used in western cultures implies a duality; God and creation are two separate things. Advaita is non-dual; God and creation are not two.

 

[idav]

And?
Why do you believe the death must entail the complete disappearance of any matter/energy that once belonged to an individual to don't be an illusion?

I am not following, I don't thing that is true.

I don't think you have replied to what I asked about.

Put simply emotions is ignorance and oneness is how to get passed it. Should oneness be desired it defeats the purpose.