I am Starting to Think God is Sadistic

[Draupadi]

^But it seems all the same to me. Sorry to disagree with you.

As for the example of the child all I have to say that even good child suffer. Our Prophet Muhammad had suffered a lot in his life but he is the most pious Muslim of all times. Maybe he might have committed minor sins but the suffering he has received does not befit his minor sins.

 

[Madhuri]

^But it seems all the same to me. Sorry to disagree with you.

As for the example of the child all I have to say that even good child suffer. Our Prophet Muhammad had suffered a lot in his life but he is the most pious Muslim of all times. Maybe he might have committed minor sins but the suffering he has received does not befit his minor sins.

Karma only works if there is reincarnation. Suffering means we committed bad acts in previous lives and must learn the lesson now. If there is no karma then we cannot blame ourselves and must either say there is no God or that God is cruel (I can't think of another alternative).

 

[YmirGF]

Hmm, I am very much interested to know about that thing or being. Can you provide me more details?

Given that it is a non-dual experience/perception it does not readily lend itself to verbal terms. The paradox is that it seems to supersede the experience of Oneness. By that I don't mean it as an "other" in normal verbal terms. It is more akin to being a foundation of being and perhaps is another aspect of One's larger identity. Having nothing the gauge it against, it is impossible to say, beyond speculation.

 

[Koldo]

He did and he didn't. Within his own self is this material nature. It is not outside of him. It is an eternal reality. Part of his eternal potency is Maya, which is the 'blanket' of illusion. One covered by Maya becomes like a blank slate. And so when God manifests as the soul within this world, he becomes covered by his own illusory energy and forgets his spiritual nature.

A mind in ignorance is selfish by default. It takes learning from experience to gain knowledge and wisdom and to become better or closer to truth. This is the pattern in nature and what many Hindus (like myself) see as the purpose of life- to learn/grow. It is not just the suffering but also the enjoyable experiences that teach us lessons and make us more aware, taking us from selfish to selfless anf from ignorance to knowledge.

Life is hard work but that hard work leads us to be better people. A simple example is that a child who is given everything they want and never disciplined is spoiled, selfish and mistreat others. They have to be confronted with some harsh situations to change that mindset- but a child who is brought up in humble settings with proper discipline is more likely to be less selfish or problematic.

That is the odd part about this concept of god. It went through the trouble of making itself forget what is its own nature. However, the very objective on our lives is to undo what god had done.

 

[Madhuri]

That is the odd part about this concept of god. It went through the trouble of making itself forget what is its own nature. However, the very objective on our lives is to undo what god had done.

He is rediscovering his own nature and experiencing is from a different perspective. As to why- I don't know. There may be a desire element- depends which school of thought you ask.

 

[FearGod]

I think this topic might have been discussed before. If yes then sorry to bother you with another one. This thread is from a general point of view and everyone is invited to debate. God(s)/dess(es), it seems is/are sadistic. For the sake of simplicity let me just use the word 'God'. Almost all scriptures tell us that the bad people suffer for their deeds in this life and if the good ones suffer, it is because they are tested. Does it befit a God? He is creating us either with flaws to sin or an agent provocateur named 'Satan'. Is He biding His time playing games with us? I don't even remember God asking me before I came into this world whether I wanted to be a part of this game or not?

Forgive me if I sound offensive. I didn't mean to do that. But these thoughts have been roaming around in my mind. What do you guys have to say about it?

May i ask you one sincere questions ?

Why you chose Islam as your religion title ?
Do you know what Islam means ?
Did you ever find an atheist proving God's existence while he chose atheism as his belief,i don't know if double personality exist in religious terms.

 

[Sees]

May i ask you one sincere questions ?

Why you chose Islam as your religion title ?
Do you know what Islam means ?
Did you ever find an atheist proving God's existence while he chose atheism as his belief,i don't know if double personality exist in religious terms.

I think it is perfectly normal for people to have doubt, issues, frustrations, etc. with theological concepts and common teachings. Some of my favorite posts on here are people questioning the beliefs and understanding of things, whether standard of their religion or personal. It's honest and beautiful.

 

[Draupadi]

May i ask you one sincere questions ?

Why you chose Islam as your religion title ?
Do you know what Islam means ?
Did you ever find an atheist proving God's existence while he chose atheism as his belief,i don't know if double personality exist in religious terms.

Now I am doubting my faith. Maybe I will change my title to a misotheist soon. Why do all Muslims think that to be a part of Islam I have to blindly follow that faith? I am a deistic and liberal Muslim. My views may not match yours. I believe in Allah that's why I call myself a Muslim. If I call Him sadistic that's because being a DEIST I am questioning His laws of the universe.

Don't worry Fear God. Maybe very soon I will change my faith from Islam to misotheist. Then I am sure you will be really happy that a hypocrite has left Islam and in turn has purified it.

 

[Draupadi]

I did it Fear God. I am already sick of this life and the game God is playing with me.

 

[FearGod]

I think it is perfectly normal for people to have doubt, issues, frustrations, etc. with theological concepts and common teachings. Some of my favorite posts on here are people questioning the beliefs and understanding of things, whether standard of their religion or personal. It's honest and beautiful.

But i think the normal choice for such case will be "None" as religion title or skeptic ...etc

It is like an atheist posting " Islam is the perfect religion", so the one posting it either kidding or doing it for other intents.

 

[FearGod]

I did it Fear God. I am already sick of this life and the game God is playing with me.

That is the good choice, hope you the best in your life Draupadi.

 

[Sees]

But i think the normal choice for such case will be "None" as religion title or skeptic ...etc

It is like an atheist posting " Islam is the perfect religion", so the one posting it either kidding or doing it for other intents.

I have never known a person who has gone all their years without doubting their religion or at least certain parts. Rough tides and frustrations doesn't mean you no longer belong to the religion or that you were never one of the faithful. Main thing is who is honest about it or if it is ever shared.

 

[Draupadi]

^I am in a bad mood. But everywhere I go they say that Muslims are not rational beings. How can one be if they are treated in this manner? I chose the name Draupadi instead of my real name because I know I will face trouble, if some fundamentalist Muslim tracks me down and finds out about my liberal viewpoint on Islam. Otherwise, some will say how can you be a Muslim while not supporting slavery and the likes? As if we are committing a sin by not keeping slaves.

@Fear God- There is a huge difference between misotheist and atheist. Atheists believe that no God exists. Misotheists believe that God exists but hates Him. I still believe that the Islamic God exists even though I don't agree many things about Him. If it still bothers you I am sorry I can't do anything about it.

Thanks for your wishes and please if you see me ever defending any religion, including Islam, and you get annoyed just ignore me. I will call a spade a spade, a good thing good and a bad thing bad.

 

[FearGod]

^I am in a bad mood. But everywhere I go they say that Muslims are not rational beings. How can one be if they are treated in this manner? I chose the name Draupadi instead of my real name because I know I will face trouble, if some fundamentalist Muslim tracks me down and finds out about my liberal viewpoint on Islam. Otherwise, some will say how can you be a Muslim while not supporting slavery and the likes? As if we are committing a sin by not keeping slaves.

@Fear God- There is a huge difference between misotheist and atheist. Atheists believe that no God exists. Misotheists believe that God exists but hates Him. I still believe that the Islamic God exists even though I don't agree many things about Him. If it still bothers you I am sorry I can't do anything about it.

Thanks for your wishes and please if you see me ever defending any religion, including Islam, and you get annoyed just ignore me. I will call a spade a spade, a good thing good and a bad thing bad.

No ain't disturbed or annoyed if you attack Islam and God in general, but my advice to you was to choose your religion according to what you believe.

Now as you choose Misotheist then you can speak with loud voice with full confidence and then discuss your views from that point.

You are free to attack God and hates him and i am free to love God and defend him even though that he doesn't need me or anyone to defend him.

 

[Draupadi]

I find no religion perfect in this world. But Islam used to seem more logical than the rest that's why I chose it. Besides reading the Quran gave me peace. And deistic and liberal Muslims can cherry-pick you know. Deists, unlike the theists are rational and don't blindly believe anything. I think you were not aware of it. Or maybe you don't want to believe that there could be deist Muslims.

When I came first in the forum I had some doubts about Islam. Then Union clarified all of it. I also fervently defended the faith in a certain thread as a Quranist. But you didn't notice that did you. Truth can sometimes be bitter but you can't run away from it. Today Muslims are so immersed in purifying their faith that there are clashes between the sects that sometimes end up in violence. If we could just let each other be.

 

[Koldo]

He is rediscovering his own nature and experiencing is from a different perspective. As to why- I don't know. There may be a desire element- depends which school of thought you ask.

A rather twisted and sad existence from my perspective. Either it is a machine that can't help but do what it does, or it can only derive satisfaction from inflicting suffering upon itself.

 

[Madhuri]

A rather twisted and sad existence from my perspective. Either it is a machine that can't help but do what it does, or it can only derive satisfaction from inflicting suffering upon itself.

The way I see it is that God is limitless in all ways. This material creation and the souls that cycle through it are but one miniscule aspect in the sea of infinite aspects/attributes/powers etc. As the material aspect is an eternal part of God- I'd say it can't be helped. It has and always will exist, endlessly being created and destroyed over and over.

I was taught that the soul represents an aspect of God that harbours both material and spiritual desires, which is why it/we chooses to come here. So if that's true, we're here to play out and fulfill those desires but we are also conflicted as we yearn for the greater (which drives us to become greater). An implication of this is that before coming here, we knew what we were getting ourselves into.

But while one aspect of God is engaging in its own material nature, he/she/it is simultaneously Blissfully situated in the eternal Spiritual state of existence.

Having said all of that, God is an enjoyer/artist/player. He is all things- Time, Death, Hero, Victim etc. So he manifests as us, the helpless and ignorant ones, and then he also manifests as our saviour to show us how to escape the cycle. It is said that the universes are a stage and the souls are the actors. From behind the curtains (Maya) God is controlling everything in full awareness and yet simultaneously he is the individual playing out its role in the great drama of life.

 

[idav]

^If I get you correctly do you mean that struggle is important because of life's continuance? Well we all agree to it. But my problem is why suffer adversity for this? God can make it work in a manner without all the evil, sufferings, etc.

And like Penumbra said does this mean that God really exists? I still believe in my Creator but my faith is definitely shaken.

As a pantheist I believe we are mmanifestations of the most high and this power has been shared with us. As Madhuri sugessts we live in a state of illusion. Now this power does not guarantee no suffering, it means responsibility and we struggle against other manifestations of God.

 

[George-ananda]

I think this topic might have been discussed before. If yes then sorry to bother you with another one. This thread is from a general point of view and everyone is invited to debate. God(s)/dess(es), it seems is/are sadistic. For the sake of simplicity let me just use the word 'God'. Almost all scriptures tell us that the bad people suffer for their deeds in this life and if the good ones suffer, it is because they are tested. Does it befit a God? He is creating us either with flaws to sin or an agent provocateur named 'Satan'. Is He biding His time playing games with us? I don't even remember God asking me before I came into this world whether I wanted to be a part of this game or not?

Forgive me if I sound offensive. I didn't mean to do that. But these thoughts have been roaming around in my mind. What do you guys have to say about it?

My opinion is that if one wants to logically dwell on the concepts associated with the Abrahamic religions one can find logical problems. I think for these analyzing types they may need to move to more eastern (Indian) concepts to get things to make more sense.

 

[Nakosis]

I do see it as a game. However it's a game we chose to participate in and continue to participate in.

As I see it "freewill" requires imperfection. If we knew the truth, we'd always make the right choice. We'd never have the experience of making a wrong choice.

You may not appreciate the freedom to make your own choices. You sometimes will be faced with the pain and suffering that result from your choices.

You were placed in the universe ignorant of the truth. The game is to discover the truth all the while learning how to deal effectively with the consequences.

Sometimes it really, really sucks. However the greater the challenge, the greater the sense of accomplishment.

God setup the scenario however you choose the life you live. You can't blame God for that. Your fellow human beings are for the most part as ignorant as you. So you have to remember to cut them a little slack sometimes. We can help each other or we can take out our anger and frustration on one another. Up to you, that's freewill.