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I am Starting to Think God is Sadistic

Draupadi

Active Member
@Dawud Talut- Being a Muslim I am already aware of suffering as test and a way of salvation :). I am also aware that without grief no one will value joy. But the omniscient God doesn't need to test anyone to know whether they are worthy of heaven or hell, does He? Allah says that He doesn't have any needs or desires. So why create us and throw us into this life (and later in the afterlife), so that we can worship Him? Don't you find that contradictory? And everything happens by God's will even though there is free will (confused about it). So someone is suffering here and going to hell afterwards thanks to His faulty creation and desire. I think God is just playing a game to bide His time. And like SPFT said He/She/It/They don't care at all.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I think this topic might have been discussed before. If yes then sorry to bother you with another one. This thread is from a general point of view and everyone is invited to debate. God(s)/dess(es), it seems is/are sadistic. For the sake of simplicity let me just use the word 'God'. Almost all scriptures tell us that the bad people suffer for their deeds in this life and if the good ones suffer, it is because they are tested. Does it befit a God? He is creating us either with flaws to sin or an agent provocateur named 'Satan'. Is He biding His time playing games with us? I don't even remember God asking me before I came into this world whether I wanted to be a part of this game or not?

Forgive me if I sound offensive. I didn't mean to do that. But these thoughts have been roaming around in my mind. What do you guys have to say about it?

My first thought is:
Is it really god who is sadistic or is it those who claimt o speak for god who are sadistic?​
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
How do you know that?
Why doesn't the same applies to gods?

Plus, that is besides the point.
Why do you deny your belief on them?
You think as a Christian I must believe santa clause every christmas and easter bunny every easter week or holy week?
And if I deny them, santa clause and easter bunny, I’m denying my faith as a Christian?

Santa clause and easter bunny meant nothing to me as Christian.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
You think as a Christian I must believe santa clause every christmas and easter bunny every easter week or holy week?

Of course not.

And if I deny them, santa clause and easter bunny, I’m denying my faith as a Christian?

No. You are denying your faith on the Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Santa clause and easter bunny meant nothing to me as Christian.

Sure. But you also believe in the Santa Claus and in the Easter Bunny.

Since you believed in them once, you are just denying your faith on them now. You can't stop believing in them.
Isn't that how it works with god?
 

JM2C

CHRISTIAN
How do you know that?
Why doesn't the same applies to gods?

Plus, that is besides the point.
Why do you deny your belief on them?
You think as a Christian I must believe santa clause every christmas and easter bunny every easter week or holy week?
And if I deny, or refuse to acknowledge, or refuse to believe, or refuse to recognize them, santa clause and easter bunny, I’m denying my faith as a Christian?

Santa clause and easter bunny meant nothing to me as Christian.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I think this topic might have been discussed before. If yes then sorry to bother you with another one. This thread is from a general point of view and everyone is invited to debate. God(s)/dess(es), it seems is/are sadistic. For the sake of simplicity let me just use the word 'God'. Almost all scriptures tell us that the bad people suffer for their deeds in this life and if the good ones suffer, it is because they are tested. Does it befit a God? He is creating us either with flaws to sin or an agent provocateur named 'Satan'. Is He biding His time playing games with us? I don't even remember God asking me before I came into this world whether I wanted to be a part of this game or not?

Forgive me if I sound offensive. I didn't mean to do that. But these thoughts have been roaming around in my mind. What do you guys have to say about it?

The byproduct to trying to reconcile meaning from an meaningless world. Once God is removed from the equation, your interpretation of events will be less ambiguous.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
The only reason I don't think that God is sadistic is because I'm a panentheist which means that all of us are part of God- not separate. In other words, he isn't doing anything to us- he is doing to himself. So if anything, God is a masochist ;)

It's unfortunate for humans that they must take the brunt of this unwanted masochism.
 

The Adept

Member
The Epicurean Paradox; circa 300 bc

'Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God? '
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Seems to me that introducing the idea of god into this world just brings out all sorts of contradictions.

If this world is godless, the horrors that exist in it don't really need an explanation. Things are the way they are, for better or worse. It's not just human nature that causes suffering, it's a billion years of the evolved predator/prey cycle, it's the array of disgusting and disfiguring diseases that plague humanity and other animals, it's birth defects, it's accidents, it's when the environment suddenly becomes violent and murderous to humans and other animals either with like a tornado or one of the five major worldwide extinction events that each killed much of the life on the planet, plus the dozens of minor extinction events. All we can do is try our best to work around these things.

If this world has a god in it, particularly one that is considered to be benevolent and exceedingly or even infinitely powerful, all of these issues relating to the problem of evil become relevant. Why would a god do this to creation? Why would god do this to itself? I've not seen answers that fully satisfy the questions, from my point of view.

Some people say that god is perfect but that something went wrong in the world. God is apparently having trouble with it. This is basically an admission that their god has limits, can fail at foresight or design, and then cannot instantly resolve things even when it's aware of a problem. Of course, humans are given center stage in the narrative, in the sense that we caused it and god must work through us to fix it, even though suffering has existed far longer than humans have been around.

Some people believe in multiple gods, and none of them are all-powerful and many of them are not infinitely benevolent.

Some people believed in a detached god, or a god that is so vague and impersonal, like undirected consciousness, that to say that god can do anything or is aware of what's going on, merely personalizes that which isn't personal.

Some people argue that god wants to experience almost everything, for better or worse, to create a contrast for the good. But could we call the existing suffering constructive?

One of the saddest things, I think, is that humans even fail when we succeed. That's the most pessimistic aspect I see to this. In the last few centuries we've collectively done a rather good job at prolonging our lives against famine and war and starvation, and in response we now have overpopulation as our reward, so we're tearing apart the environment. Or, for example, we've invented these medicines to cure some diseases. Like antibacterial medicine against bacteria. But increasingly, super-bacteria are developing that are resistant to our medicines, and most of our health advancements come from inflicting test suffering on animals. By helping the weakest among us live (and by extension eventually mate), we might be keeping a lot of problems in our collective gene pool that would have naturally minimized themselves in less civilized times, and if that's the case what if it keeps collecting and collecting? Most or all of our advancements have a cost, so over the long term, it's hard to say how well we're really doing in response to nature, or if there is even a way to do decently, and we haven't even dealt with a huge catastrophe like an asteroid impact or a gamma ray blast or anything like this that could wipe out our advancements and maybe our species. It just goes back to basically doing our best and trying to keep this going for as long as we can.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Got it Madhuri. But why would God create flawed beings who will not do good deeds and then suffer?

What a great thread. I appreciate all the thoughts I made it to the next page. The following is my answer.

I think the answer lies in what life is compared to death. Life strives and I personally believe god to be life or the very reason for life, the essence of creation, the essence of something rather than nothing. I believe nothing would never strive to be it would be complete static. Why is sex loved so much by every being , because of life. However life needs energy and power, it needs to replicate somehow. How do you get two cells out of one without borrowing energy from somewhere. That is the mystery of life cause we are not the source. We have to borrow it we cannot create it. God has created something that strives by its own merit without needing to be a source and this is why evolution proves we are all related to all humans and animals and even the universe itself. Hope this helps anyone it is what i personally came up with. Does this make sense to anyone or it just me? :sad:
 

Draupadi

Active Member
^If I get you correctly do you mean that struggle is important because of life's continuance? Well we all agree to it. But my problem is why suffer adversity for this? God can make it work in a manner without all the evil, sufferings, etc.

And like Penumbra said does this mean that God really exists? I still believe in my Creator but my faith is definitely shaken.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
It's unfortunate for humans that they must take the brunt of this unwanted masochism.

I don't think we take the brunt- according to this belief system we are only one of innumerable species not only on this planet but far, far beyond.

The masochism isn't unwanted (again, according to the belief). We might not like it now- but it was our choice to be here and eventually we will remember why.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
You keep replying to my answers, and yet I've got to hear your point of view. I though you were dharmic/hindu? So is your god sadistic?

When I look at the universe, I don't see an all powerful and all knowing god. Omnipresent, yes, since I'm panentheistic... But it's obvious that either there's no god, that god isn't omni everything or that there's some explanation I've yet to know. Maybe god isn't a being - maybe like nature it simply is.

All I care about is now we humans act... Don't you believe in karma? Then how is blaming god going to improve our karma? I'm not suggesting there can't be suffering but I'm saying that I don't believe in the traditional god image and I believe humans should take responsibility. Because in the end, we don't know for sure if a god even exist, so all we can know for sure is that we can either make things better or worse. Our choice.

I don't blame God or think he is sadistic. I only think that God from a dualistic perspective is a sadist- which applied to the God concept in religions such as Christianity and Islam.

The same arguments don't apply to the Hindu concept because God is not 'doing' anything to us. We are all a manifestation of his self.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Got it Madhuri. But why would God create flawed beings who will not do good deeds and then suffer?

He did and he didn't. Within his own self is this material nature. It is not outside of him. It is an eternal reality. Part of his eternal potency is Maya, which is the 'blanket' of illusion. One covered by Maya becomes like a blank slate. And so when God manifests as the soul within this world, he becomes covered by his own illusory energy and forgets his spiritual nature.

A mind in ignorance is selfish by default. It takes learning from experience to gain knowledge and wisdom and to become better or closer to truth. This is the pattern in nature and what many Hindus (like myself) see as the purpose of life- to learn/grow. It is not just the suffering but also the enjoyable experiences that teach us lessons and make us more aware, taking us from selfish to selfless anf from ignorance to knowledge.

Life is hard work but that hard work leads us to be better people. A simple example is that a child who is given everything they want and never disciplined is spoiled, selfish and mistreat others. They have to be confronted with some harsh situations to change that mindset- but a child who is brought up in humble settings with proper discipline is more likely to be less selfish or problematic.
 
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