I am Starting to Think God is Sadistic

[Madhuri]

But part of being righteous is to try to change society so that things like you mentioned don't happen (or happen less). To give that choice to others, you need to stand up for them. That's what I mean. It's not just about one person being good, it's making change so that the whole of society is better.

Under a different environment, people act differently. People are a reflection of the society, if it's dysfunctional, people are going to be that. If the society has food, education and shelter for all, then people are going to be very different. Eliminate desperate survival, you won't get that type of crime anymore... Those people aren't necessarily bad, society failed them.

Is it fair that God allows the suffering of the powerless to be placed under the responsibility of other human beings who time and time again prove that they are not willing to (as a whole) eliminate abuse? Just look at society today. It is in many ways better than ever before and yet to gain nearly any possession or enjoy nearly any service requires that some human or animal or the environment must suffer/receive harm. This is how the world works. To make something, you have to break something. To live, you have to kill. We can be the best person we can possibly be and still cause pain. That is just part of nature. And eventually every single one of us experiences great loss, pain, suffering and death.

I know that is a beak outlook..but it's also a reality. So then for me at least, the question is why would God do this to us- provide us with a system for survival that is malicious to the core? I have my own beliefs on this but I generally do not understand how people of other beliefs manage to convince themselves that their God is not sadistic.

 

[Koldo]

The typical answer to this is that God although not the cause of evil or suffering, nonetheless allows it to exist because as it serves his larger purpose. God is not blind or indifferent to the problems of the world, but in the end it is those very problems which he will ultimately use to bring about the greatest possible good regardless of how senseless much of evil and suffering may initially appear to be.

You are meant to trust that God knows what he is doing, and that he really does have our best interests in mind.

The usual 'God works in mysterious ways'. It just doesn't happen to be a satisfying answer to many people.

 

[Madhuri]

For those who argue that the monotheistic God is sadistic, regardless the arguments already presented in this thread, how do you explain the animal kingdom? The kind of brutality displayed there is really shocking and horrifying. If God did not create it that way, why is it like that? And if God did create it like that, how is he not a sadist?

 

[Bunyip]

For those who argue that the monotheistic God is sadistic, regardless the arguments already presented in this thread, how do you explain the animal kingdom? The kind of brutality displayed there is really shocking and horrifying. If God did not create it that way, why is it like that? And if God did create it like that, how is he not a sadist?

Well I think that if god did not create things that way, they are as brutal as they are because it works. Claw and fang, competition and so on drive adaptation and evolution. Without the brutal interplay, we would never have evolved past cyanobacteria sitting on a rock.

It is the brutality of existence that drives organisms to adapt an evolve.

 

[Koldo]

Well I think that if god did not create things that way, they are as brutal as they are because it works. Claw and fang, competition and so on drive adaptation and evolution. Without the brutal interplay, we would never have evolved past cyanobacteria sitting on a rock.

It is the brutality of existence that drives organisms to adapt an evolve.

You speak as if evolution is something you look forward to. As if humans were better than cyanobacterias. Why is that so?

 

[ametist]

Depends on how you look at it. When you look at the animal kingdom and see brutality and harm it happens just because god created in you a 'knowing' which assures you that it is not the best way or else you would think it is just fine and normal and heavenly. It is rather promising to have this recognition to my opinion and gives humanity an area to evolve over animal kingdom and question themselves.
The reason why everything isnt in its perfect state is simply because we are in a reality where there is 'us' and 'other'. If we didnt have it we wouldnt recognize ourselves or we would be both the dear and the tiger simultaniously yet our name would be neither the tiger nor the dear.
People fear pain and suffering thus comes the accusation on sadism on the nature of reality.
How many of you would choose to replace dear when attacked by a tiger? If all were dear at that moment how much pain it would be to dear? If all were to choose to become a tiger how much hunger it would feel to begin with?

 

[Glaurung]

The usual 'God works in mysterious ways'. It just doesn't happen to be a satisfying answer to many people.

If you don't accept the belief in a monotheistic deity then I'm not surprised. But if such being does exist then what we as individuals find satisfying or not is nothing but a product of our limited perspectives.

 

[McNap]

I've been thinking about this theme before many times, but it always raised the question: How could I have created it any better if I were God?
As a young boy I used to be so angry on the Father for sending his Son into this temporary hell that I became satanic for a certain period of my life.

Later I found love and I don't think I could have created it any better.
God created us with weaknesses to make sure we need one another.
Also, we may ask ourselves: Is it possible to show love outside of weakness? I think with no weakness there's no love at all.

Saint John quoted the following: We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. He who doesn’t love his brother remains in death. (1 John 3:14)
I agree this temporary life is hell. I believe God to be the creator of dead. He created the devil. I believe it has to be like this, for otherwise I wouldn't be able to discern what's good.

The fact that we, humans, are created in God's image strengthens me. Even the angels are jealous of us for that fact, because they don't have that. We are God's image, since we are mortal. Angels aren't.
Saint Jude quotes it as follows: These are murmurers and complainers (Jude 1:16) and in our dutch translation it actually says: murmurers and complainers about their purpose
which means that he who doesn't accept his destiny is a heretic.

I believe a sinner deserves dead, even though I started to sin because others have been sinning against me first. You would say: "It's not your fault, McNap"
Then again, I made other people start sinning myself, so propbably I didn't care of the sins they did to me.
But I don't believe that God ever sinned against us and thus caused us to copy such sinning behaviour.
God did however take responsibilty for creating sinners and for that I fear him, because we turned real by the cup which was given to his son. And he drank.

Maybe this creation seems vain. I'd say most of it is. But it wasn't created for all this vanity.
One may say: "God is vain for creating us with ears, because one may choose not to listen". But I chose to listen. For me God is not vain.

 

[Bunyip]

You speak as if evolution is something you look forward to. As if humans were better than cyanobacterias. Why is that so?

No, not better - evolution makes no value judgements. Evolution happens to species, not individuals.

 

[Draupadi]

Those who say that evil is for the great good should also realise that God is omnipotent. He can make things happen without all these evil. Again why did He send us here already knowing how we will be? Even the religions which doesn't have hell or heaven has the concept of karma. Why should a deity create flawed beings?

Like Madhuri I say that this God is not worthy of worship.

 

[Madhuri]

Even the religions which doesn't have hell or heaven has the concept of karma.

In defense of karma- you only get back what you put out and then you are supposed to learn from your mistakes. A person who suffers in one way will often be sympathetic and empathetic to those who must endure similar suffering and so we gradually become better and better beings (theoretically). This gives a positive purpose to suffering- which I suppose it better than no purpose or an unfair purpose.

 

[Draupadi]

Got it Madhuri. But why would God create flawed beings who will not do good deeds and then suffer?

 

[Mycroft]

because He is greater than us

According to whom?

 

[Draupadi]

Those who believe in deities/gods.

 

[Koldo]

If you don't accept the belief in a monotheistic deity then I'm not surprised.

Actually, it wasn't satisfying to me even when I did believe in a monotheistic deity.

But if such being does exist then what we as individuals find satisfying or not is nothing but a product of our limited perspectives.

Which doesn't make it any less significant.

 

[Koldo]

In defense of karma- you only get back what you put out and then you are supposed to learn from your mistakes. A person who suffers in one way will often be sympathetic and empathetic to those who must endure similar suffering and so we gradually become better and better beings (theoretically). This gives a positive purpose to suffering- which I suppose it better than no purpose or an unfair purpose.

Is karma a good method to learn things though?
It seems there is an underlying assumption that it is the best method, at least for some form of knowledge.

How much can you learn if you can't connect the dots between cause and effect ?

 

[Koldo]

Depends on how you look at it. When you look at the animal kingdom and see brutality and harm it happens just because god created in you a 'knowing' which assures you that it is not the best way or else you would think it is just fine and normal and heavenly. It is rather promising to have this recognition to my opinion and gives humanity an area to evolve over animal kingdom and question themselves.
The reason why everything isnt in its perfect state is simply because we are in a reality where there is 'us' and 'other'. If we didnt have it we wouldnt recognize ourselves or we would be both the dear and the tiger simultaniously yet our name would be neither the tiger nor the dear.
People fear pain and suffering thus comes the accusation on sadism on the nature of reality.
How many of you would choose to replace dear when attacked by a tiger? If all were dear at that moment how much pain it would be to dear? If all were to choose to become a tiger how much hunger it would feel to begin with?

Why must the tiger feel hunger?

 

[JM2C]

Well the god of the bible is a mass murderer, as I've posted before...

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? Complete list and estimated total (Including Apocryphal killings)

At least you believed in the God of the bible, then you are not an atheist. Therefore, you are denying your belief as an atheist.

 

[Koldo]

At least you believed in the God of the bible, then you are not an atheist. Therefore, you are denying your belief as an atheist.

Therefore we are all denying our belief on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

 

[JM2C]

Therefore we are all denying our belief on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Santa Clause and the Easter Bunnies were just the inventions of human mind and nothing else.