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I am Starting to Think God is Sadistic

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Draupadi, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. Draupadi

    Draupadi Active Member

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    I think this topic might have been discussed before. If yes then sorry to bother you with another one. This thread is from a general point of view and everyone is invited to debate. God(s)/dess(es), it seems is/are sadistic. For the sake of simplicity let me just use the word 'God'. Almost all scriptures tell us that the bad people suffer for their deeds in this life and if the good ones suffer, it is because they are tested. Does it befit a God? He is creating us either with flaws to sin or an agent provocateur named 'Satan'. Is He biding His time playing games with us? I don't even remember God asking me before I came into this world whether I wanted to be a part of this game or not?

    Forgive me if I sound offensive. I didn't mean to do that. But these thoughts have been roaming around in my mind. What do you guys have to say about it?
     
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  2. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡Lux Aeterna
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    I can see how you would feel this way. However, I think to just blame it on God ignores our responsibility for the way the world is. In my religion, it's pretty simple: Love God and love your neighbor (everyone else) as yourself. That is the foundation of everything else. But this world makes it so hard, with all its wickedness. With the way the world is, the good do seem to suffer the most and the evil get away with their wrongdoings in this lifetime.

    But the question is: What can we do about it? God didn't make us to be helpless beings. We are powerful and can change the world if we want. But first we have to want to and then actually do it.
     
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  3. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    The only reason I don't think that God is sadistic is because I'm a panentheist which means that all of us are part of God- not separate. In other words, he isn't doing anything to us- he is doing to himself. So if anything, God is a masochist ;)
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    If my ideas of Deity and worldview fit that scenario, I would not worship Deity either.
     
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    An interesting topic, to be sure.

    First off, for clarity, I do not have a use for a central "god" figure in my worldview. To be honest, there is something I detect in my deepest meditations, that is outside of my understanding. It could be god, I simply have no yardstick to measure it against and therefore I cannot honestly say it is god. I can only refer to it as "something"... something interesting...

    That said, it don't think it is that "something" that is at fault, rather, the fault lies in the teachings of human animals that have been passed down from generation to generation by human animals of varying awareness, intelligence, spiritual acumen and understanding. For the most part, these intoxicated little humans let their imaginations and zeal rule their thinking and they produced massive distortions that future generations have been saddled with. Some of these distortions of reality are commonly known as "sin", "satan", "salvation", "worship" and so on. Where the problems come up is wrestling with these ancient snivellings and trying to make sense out of the nonsense. The main point is that it's not you. It's the theology that is probably quite erroneous due to unhealthy exposure to fanatical writers.
     
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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  7. illykitty

    illykitty RF's pet cat

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    This and consider that a lot of the suffering is caused by humans. We're masochists too.

    We could feed the whole world, but we don't because of the type of society we're in focuses on money, for example. There would be no profit in feeding the starving.

    So maybe instead of blaming deity(ies), we should look at ourselves and work towards solving the problems.

    Then there's also suffering caused by natural events, nature doesn't chose who to hit though - can be rich, can be poor, no one is immune. Of course though, poor people would be at risk of greater damage since, say, their homes aren't built as well... But again, this is a human fault. And nature hits more frequently and harder with global warming... Again because of humans.

    We've got a lot of responsibility to take. :sad: And some people deny it.
     
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  8. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    But this could still be considered God's fault for creating us the way we are (everything is His Will according to many religions). Even natural disasters, which occur due to the particular way God set up the universe/natural world, is his doing- intentional doing. So it fits into the God is a sadist argument.
     
  9. Draupadi

    Draupadi Active Member

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    Hmm, I am very much interested to know about that thing or being. Can you provide me more details?
     
  10. Draupadi

    Draupadi Active Member

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    God has bigger responsibilities than us, because He is greater than us. I told you such a benign Being doesn't sound too nice when He is supposed to be responsible for Hurricane Katrina in USA, irrespective of who was harmed by it.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡Lux Aeterna
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    No, everything is not His will. He permits evil things to happen but they are not willed by Him. In Christianity, we were not made to die. Things are messed up.
     
  12. illykitty

    illykitty RF's pet cat

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    There's the presuming that humans are this way. I think we have many good qualities that aren't being encouraged enough... Because in this type of society, it's not profitable to be empathic, cooperative, etc. And this society wasn't made by the deity, it was made by humans. We can change it too, if enough start caring and want change.

    With nature, you sort of got me there, I'll admit. I cannot answer under that perspective. I've got a perspective that isn't compatible with Islam.

    I think part of being human is to improve ourselves, to grow. Why did the deity do this? I don't know. Maybe there's a reason, but it's a waste of time to think about it. What matters is here and now. What can we do to make our lives better?

    If people spend their whole time blaming god or trying to think about why he/she did this or that, there's a lot of time and thinking wasted on something we cannot know for sure. All that time and thinking could be used for something else, something that could help.
     
  13. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    The point for me is that if I believed God was responsible for our suffering (which is rooted in ignorance with the addition of things like disease, pain, loss and death) I would either stop believing in him or would simply stop worshiping him.
     
  14. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    But the 'free will' and the ability to die according to Christianity are only something that happens because God willed it- no? It was his decision right? And he also made the decision to curse all humans to suffer for the actions of the first humans right? Ie/ He willed it?
     
  15. illykitty

    illykitty RF's pet cat

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    Oh I understand that perspective...

    I just think that the deity gave us the choice to either be the way it is now... Or embrace the good quality it gave us. Like empathy, intelligence, adaptivity, etc.

    We can do great things with those qualities. We can minimise our suffering (or even better if you look at transhumanist/futurist blogs).

    If we don't make use of our good qualities, it's not the deity's fault, imo. :shrug:
     
  16. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    I think that to an extent you are right but what of the people who are in situations that limit that freedom to choose? In the sense that people who are traumatised from early age and have behavioural problems that are normal psychological reactions, or people who are taken into slavery (like sex trafficking) or children who are abused or people born without empathy etc etc.

    I think it's easy for us to say that it's about choosing to act righteously because we have all the support in our life (at least I can say that for myself) to be able to live well enough and healthy enough to do good for others as well. But so many people are not in a position to act selflessly or even become wise enough to know they should act selflessly. A lot of crime or abuse is caused by desperate (survival) and unhappy people who don't know much better.
     
  17. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    The typical answer to this is that God although not the cause of evil or suffering, nonetheless allows it to exist because as it serves his larger purpose. God is not blind or indifferent to the problems of the world, but in the end it is those very problems which he will ultimately use to bring about the greatest possible good regardless of how senseless much of evil and suffering may initially appear to be.

    You are meant to trust that God knows what he is doing, and that he really does have our best interests in mind.
     
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  18. illykitty

    illykitty RF's pet cat

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    But part of being righteous is to try to change society so that things like you mentioned don't happen (or happen less). To give that choice to others, you need to stand up for them. That's what I mean. It's not just about one person being good, it's making change so that the whole of society is better.

    Under a different environment, people act differently. People are a reflection of the society, if it's dysfunctional, people are going to be that. If the society has food, education and shelter for all, then people are going to be very different. Eliminate desperate survival, you won't get that type of crime anymore... Those people aren't necessarily bad, society failed them.
     
  19. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    This is food for thought. Essentially, I suppose most of us in here have at least once pondered about it in some way.
     
  20. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Notice this sentence.
    You said 'minimize', as in reducing it to be small as possible.

    We can go further then: Why is a small dose of suffering necessary? Why does god want us to suffer even if ever so slightly ?
     
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