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I am now converted.

Luminous

non-existential luminary
posting around youtube i have found the most elequent of christian respondants who has now proven to me that her Christianity is far truer than Agnosticism. It is imperically proven by history and common sense and it truely does, as Faux News claims, "take more faith to be non-theist."
here is her take:
Someone isn't regarded as God for very long if there is no proof to back up their divinity. They eventually fade, dissipate, and blend in as a myth but never stands apart and distinct as objective Truth.

Ex: If Michael Jackson didn't empirically prove to have the skills to be the King of Pop, he wouldn't be the King of Pop today or have caused the tremendous impact he had....

-Two thousand years have passed. If Jesus Christ didn't prove to be God incarnate, He wouldn't be considered God today.

-Surely over time somebody would have been able to out-do Him if indeed He didn't prove Himself to be out-of-the-ordinary.

-Christ outdid those that came before Him, and those that have come after Him fall short in comparison to Him.

-Again, my favorite question Mr. Turek asked Mr. Hitchens in their last debate:
How does a crucified man from an obscure village become the LORD of Glory, if nothing happened?

Then on the existence of God side....

Creation testifies to a Creator a.k.a an intelligent Mind behind what what is created.
Moral absolutes (good/evil) point to a Moral Law Giver/Standard/Ultimate Constant that morality is compared TO.

Dawkin's big question: WHO MADE GOD????
Draw a line on a piece of paper.... it starts from ONE singular point right?? What comes before the first point of the line? Nothing correct? Why... it starts there....

Everything has a starting point. In chemistry, lab experiments depend on a constant or else the experiment fails or isn't reliable. A building is built from a firm FOUNDATION. Everything depends on a constant. The Ultimate, Infinite, No limits Creator is God.

i responded weakly with the fact that Lord Gautama is God.

Then came her next responce:
LT,

There is objective historical reliability for Christ being Lord i.e. Christianity... here is some:

-If the NT events are fictional, then why do the non-Christian writers record some as though they actually occurred?
*Jesus Christ is cited by Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Thallus, Suetonious, Lucion, Celsus, Mara Bar-Serapian, the Jewish Talmud (which said he did sorcery-admitting the miracles he did had to have happened, these are the opponents to Christianity.)

-The New Testament alone has over 5,000 Greek manuscripts, the ancient document that follows that is Homer's Illiad with only 643 manuscripts, and all ancient document go down from there. Now if we include different languages the N.T. has 25,000-30,000 manuscripts. While Homer's Iliad barely has 2,400 total manuscripts and Homer existed 800 years prior to Christ walking the earth. Not only that. Even if we were to lose ALL our manuscripts today we could reconstruct the N.T. from the writings of the early church fathers who quoted the N.T. writings so much we can put together the N.T. down to several lines which weren't quoted. Consequently the New Testament is 99.5 % pure to the original with no doctrines of the faith in question.

-I will name some of these early church fathers who named as authentic or cited from certain N.T. books PRIOR to 300 A.D. which was when Constantine rolled around. Here it goes:
Pseudo-Barnabas, Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Hermas, Didache, Papias, Irenaeus, Diognetus, Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen.

-By the process of comparison and cross checking, the original New Testament can be reconstructed with great accuracy. Since there are copies spread all over the ancient world, there's NO way one scribe or priest can alter the Word of God. No other ancient book is so well authenticated.

-Jerusalem was demolished by 70 A.D. by Titus the Roman emperor. All info included in the NT is so detailed on Jerusalem before it was demolished that it couldn't be written by someone of a later generation. All NT books were written before A.D. 100, about 70 years after the ascension of Jesus.

-If there was ever a place that a legendary resurrection could not occur it was Jerusalem, because the Jews and the Romans were all too eager to squash Christianity and could have easily done it by parading Jesus' body around the city.

-There are about at least 30 characters in the N.T. who have been confirmed as historical through archaeology or non-christian sources.

-Nobody eyewitness for something that they KNOW is a lie, i.e. the disciples said they saw, ate, and touched the Risen Christ, and got killed for saying that. Why would the N.T. writers endure persecution, torture, and death for a fictional story?

-Historical novelists usually don't use the names of real people, especially powerful gov't and religious officials who could easily deny the story and the writers know they are getting into a heap of trouble by writing about them. They were willing to run the risk.. why? The saw Jesus, they saw Him alive, they touched Him, after He had been put to death...

The Bible is the best-selling book of all-time. Its been translated into more than 2,200 languagesno other work has effected art, literature, music, cultures, moralitynothing compares to it!

Let me just give you a comparison because when we look at reliability and this is for any literature, we look at two things: age and number. How old is the copy and how many of those copies do we have so we can cross reference them and see where the differences lie. Lets just look at one work of:



1. Plato Tetralogies 7 copies written 400 B.C earliest manuscript 900 A.D (1300 years)

2. Caesars Gallic Wars 10 copies written in 60 B.C earliest manuscript we have is 900 A.D. (nearly 1000 years)

3. Homers Illiad 643 copies written in 900 B.C earliest copy we have 400 B.C. (500 years)

4. Bible 10,000 manuscripts (part or whole) of the O.T. and over 5,000 manuscripts N.T completed before 100 A.D earliest manuscript we have 200 A.D. (100 years)



1947 Dead Sea Scrolls are found in a cave near the Dead Sea These scrolls belonged to a group of Jewish people who took scrolls that would have been used in the temple and sealed them in these jars and placed them in these caves. We have complete manuscripts of O.T they were reading from at the time these people lived in 145 B.C to 68 A.D. They took them out, compared them and a passage like Is. 53 (1000 years older than the earliest copy we ever had) only one word differed in the entire chapter, but it didnt change the meaning!



"I say unequivocally that the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt!"
- Sir Lionel Luckhoo, listed in the Guiness Book of Records as the most successful attorney in history



***Someone isnt regarded as God for very long if there is no proof to back up their divinity. They eventually fade, dissipate, and blend in as a myth but never stands apart and distinct as objective Truth.***
And this is what we have with Christ, objective Truth by how He authenticated Himself by His Resurrection in an empirical glorified body. ~ No eye-witnesses to this- Christianity wouldnt have lasted even a day, since the Roman militia clearly outnumbered any crazy heretic going around.. Romans would have brought Christianity to a dead end on the spot, for someone giving allegiance to someone (Jesus) other than them.
How does a crucified man from an obscure village become the LORD of Glory if nothing happened where He authenticated Himself?
CHRIST had to have done something HUGE, to be regarded as God incarnate literally.. and no one can deny that. There is solid evidence for His historical reliability.

You don't know a line is crooked unless you know what a straight like looks like... what is this standard we measure everything which is good??... God, our Creator, our Maker. How do we know what is good or bad? Who put morality into our DNA? Who encoded the DNA? We are not just some random puddle, even the smallest cell has more info than 1,000 encyclopedias.


24. With Ken Boa - Does God Exist?
The One Minute Apologist asks special guest Ken Boa, "Does God Exist". Ken Boa uses four
anyway i was just wondering(for those not Christian) why you have so much faith and so much little knowledge and logic.
 
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TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Then came her next responce:
anyway i was just wondering(for those not Christian) why you have so much faith and so much little knowledge and logic.
Keep in mind, you asked for it.


Yes, all those wonderful things about Jesus are so wonderfully heart-warming and quaint. However, Jesus' primary message on Earth was that he was the Messiah. It is debated whether or not he called himself God, it is debated whether or not he considered himself part of a trinity.

However, what is not debated by any Christian sect is the fact that Jesus was the Messiah.

So this is what is truly relevant. Was Jesus the Messiah?

Well, the best way to know this is to examine the prophecies that speak of the Messiah and what the Messiah will do, and see if Jesus fits this criteria. If Jesus fails to meet the criteria than he is not the Messiah.



World Peace

Isaiah 2:4 And He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 42:4 He shall not fail nor be crushed, till he have set the right in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his teaching.

The Messiah is prophesied to bring world peace. Jesus did not.

Was Jesus the Messiah? No. How can we know this for sure? Because there is no world peace.


Death

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death for ever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the reproach of His people will He take away from off all the earth; for the LORD hath spoken it.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence.

It is prophesied that in the times of Moshiach, death will be the study of historians. And yet, people still die.

Was Jesus the Messiah? No. How can we know? Because everyone is still dying, and the dead have not been raised.


These are simple inconsistencies which show the falseness of Christianity. But, I do not believe they are the most effective. The most effective evidence against Christianity is the fact that Jesus did not bring anything new to Torah. He didn't add any new knowledge, nor did he bring anything else enlightening. At best, he was a teacher of Judaic concepts through radical views.
 
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Luminous

non-existential luminary
You're being sarcastic; right?
:sarcastic well, no. i truely have forsaken my agnostic truth. it just makes sense. Jesus was God and non-christians confirmed it. besides the bible is the most unchanged book since it was writen by God. truely it is word of God. i was just looking for some blind faithfilled atheists to try to disprove the logic. to try to show that the bible is not original 99.9% accurate. you people are fallacious in your logic. truely, if soooo many people believe in Christ than how could he NOT have been God? I really need for you to try to answer the points made by my converter, so you can see that you were wrong. no other work is as perfectly unchanged as Bible(the version im holding,99.9% accurate just like all other versions). MOREOVER: Christianity is the only religion who's prophet is God and Son of himself at the same time. YOU simply can't grasp the enormous complexity of all awesome God. Jesus is the only one that came back from the grave. all other 'false prophets' simple "accended" into heaven. HIS Disciples ATE him, so clearly he came back. :shout please help me return to the faith i was born with... i simply cannot argue with her logic.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Keep in mind, you asked for it.


Yes, all those wonderful things about Jesus are so wonderfully heart-warming and quaint. However, Jesus' primary message on Earth was that he was the Messiah. It is debated whether or not he called himself God, it is debated whether or not he considered himself part of a trinity.

However, what is not debated by any Christian sect is the fact that Jesus was the Messiah.

So this is what is truly relevant. Was Jesus the Messiah?

Well, the best way to know this is to examine the prophecies that speak of the Messiah and what the Messiah will do, and see if Jesus fits this criteria. If Jesus fails to meet the criteria than he is not the Messiah.



World Peace

Isaiah 2:4 And He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 42:4 He shall not fail nor be crushed, till he have set the right in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his teaching.

The Messiah is prophesied to bring world peace. Jesus did not.

Was Jesus the Messiah? No. How can we know this for sure? Because there is no world peace.


Death

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death for ever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the reproach of His people will He take away from off all the earth; for the LORD hath spoken it.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and everlasting abhorrence.

It is prophesied that in the times of Moshiach, death will be the study of historians. And yet, people still die.

Was Jesus the Messiah? No. How can we know? Because everyone is still dying, and the dead have not been raised.


These are simple inconsistencies which show the falseness of Christianity. But, I do not believe they are the most effective. The most effective evidence against Christianity is the fact that Jesus did not bring anything new to Torah. He didn't add any new knowledge, nor did he bring anything else enlightening. At best, he was a teacher of Judaic concepts through radical views.
i have come before an answer to this blasphemious and uneducated responce before: Answer~Jesus will come back and fullfill the prophesies. there are two commings... maybe thousands. plus Jesus FIXED the Jewsish messed up believes into truth again. HE restored their false believes to the truth once again. love thy neighbor was something the jews forgot: though it was common saying among jews of jesus time and historically was never in torrah. but it was god's law. and the jews forgot it so jesus came to restore. :). however! christians are not just reform jews with no jew blood, THEY follow the original religion of God{christianity}. my weak mind is unable to grasp the perfect complexity of God.
 

averageJOE

zombie
Yup. That gave me a good chuckel. Especially the part:
Question: "Who Made God?"
Answer: "Everything has a starting point. And that starting point is called God."
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
Yet this has nothing to do with any shortcomings of logic.
i guess i just now see how the bilble is 99.9% accurate and how historically Jesus did do miracles and his disciples ATE him after he came back. why would i argue with his disciples? why would they lie? why would a pesant from backwaters of jedia come to be regarded as God by so many? by now somebody would have had to prove him wrong. she wrote soooo much,compared to how little i responded her with. i see no way to refute her.:sarcastic first i responded that Gautama was God.{i was agnostic so i didn't believe this necessarily} its been 500 yrs longer than Jesus as God. but then she completly ignored my point and showed how the Bible was soooo unchanged from original and HISTORY showed Jesus was Lord. her replies are in the O.P. clearly the Bible is not Historical fiction, all the characters existed, therefore it is true. aslo the bible has more original manuscripts than other writings, such as Illiad(which ofcourse doesn't require originality to be considered great, and is considered mostly ficticious embelished story). plus, the romans didn't prove jesus didn't come back from dead. so clearly he did. you cannot refute her logic.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
i have come before an answer to this blasphemious and uneducated responce before: Answer~Jesus will come back and fullfill the prophesies.
He will come back? He isn't the Messiah until he does what the Messiah is supposed to do. If you say "Jesus is the Messiah" and I say "but he didn't fulfill the prophesies" then you say "But he will come back to fulfill them" then you're agreeing with me. You, basically, just agreed that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesies. Therefore, you cannot call him the Messiah.

HE restored their false believes to the truth once again.
Which false beliefs? Have you forgotten already the words of Jesus which say "If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees then surely you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven?"

Or perhaps when he says "Do as they say, but not as they do?"

love thy neighbor was something the jews forgot: though it was common saying among jews of jesus time and historically was never in torrah.
Never historically in Torah? How about Leviticus 19:18?

but it was god's law. and the jews forgot it so jesus came to restore. :).
God's law? Jesus restored God's law? Do you even know what God's law is? There's 5 books of it including a vast teeming oral tradition. And after Jesus came, people stopped following God's laws.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
He will come back? He isn't the Messiah until he does what the Messiah is supposed to do. If you say "Jesus is the Messiah" and I say "but he didn't fulfill the prophesies" then you say "But he will come back to fulfill them" then you're agreeing with me. You, basically, just agreed that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesies. Therefore, you cannot call him the Messiah.

Which false beliefs? Have you forgotten already the words of Jesus which say "If your righteousness does not surpass that of the pharisees then surely you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven?"

Or perhaps when he says "Do as they say, but not as they do?"

Never historically in Torah? How about Leviticus 19:18?


God's law? Jesus restored God's law? Do you even know what God's law is? There's 5 books of it including a vast teeming oral tradition. And after Jesus came, people stopped following God's laws.
ahhh, i see i was wrong... you have better knowledge of Bible than I. See Jesus didn't change laws of God. :D. that people stopped following God's law on count of Jesus' comming is not Jesus fault. besides didn't most jews remain jew? so christianity is just an attempt to spread truth to non-jews. and i dont know if jesus said he would be last sacrafise, plus one of gods law was no human sacrafise or eating blood. this does bring me back to my agnostic faith. thank you.:)
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
ahhh, i see i was wrong... you have better knowledge of Bible than I. See Jesus didn't change laws of God. :D. that people stopped following God's law on count of Jesus' comming is not Jesus fault. besides didn't most jews remain jew? so christianity is just an attempt to spread truth to non-jews. and i dont know if jesus said he would be last sacrafise, plus one of gods law was no human sacrafise or eating blood. this does bring me back to my agnostic faith. thank you.:)

:( I find it hard to take your seriously.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
anyway: thanks, i was able to respond: i think i was dumbfounded by her second reply in the O.P.
My Reply:
OK. lets assume for a second that Lord Gautama is not an Accended being.[god]
i have heard of your argument from Muslims that claim that the Qu'ran has not changed AT ALL from its original version in Arabic. truely all arabic Qu'rans are the same, word for word. the Farsi translations are of course just weak Qu'rans because Arabic is the Language of God.[chosen for Qu'ran.]
1. if fictional, why some events are part of history? because just like the tale of Odipeus Rex, the tales of the heretic Jews could be embelish truth. half-truth like almost every work of fiction. many historians have many fictional accounts which they write down because they can. Atlantis and such other word of mouth stories. Muhamud did go into cave and meditated, that doesn't mean his story is true, or not the work of insanity. Gautama was a true living Indian Prince, did he really fight demons that tempted him with "fear of death, so as to make himself a religion for the afterlife or reincarnation" Which he won over and thus centered his philosophy for perfection and detatchment from the world, on Agnosticism and not Religious Dogma.
2. what do manuscripts have to do with anything. the Greeks liked the Christian religion. it differed little in their believes and could actually unite them. the Greeks already believed that Gods had children with mortals, and christian orthodox prolitzerisers could say that their other gods were just "angels and demons" you see, your religion is really just polytheism wraped up as monotheism. Islam talks of how God created humans from water and earth[mud] and Jin from fire and wind; jin being all the first angels, demons having first been angels are Jin too. if there is only one god, what the hell are these mythical supernatural creatures? clearly they are gods, by all the original definitions. Now, the New Testament was made by people, however, who is saying that the New Testament changes hugely through translation or through time? no one. most atheists just point out that it contradicts itself and current christian doctrine. however, i would point out to those atheist that most of the doctrines of faith of christians cannot be found from Jesus in New Testimont these doctrines were added later when his cult followers tried to explain the death of their perfect Son of God, and later writers tried to consolidate his magical powers with their inability to do the magic, even though he said they could.
3. you say the "word of God" cannot be altered. no way becuase it is so authenticated, im assuming your version of the Bible is the most accurate. or does version matter little, i've compared version, and word by word the meaning changed greatly. King James v. Contemporary American.
4. anything is possible. If the Temple was so demolished the writers could have made up what it looked like, or they knew from previous writings. yes they could have lived in the time. but they didn't have to.
5. maybe Jesus' body did disapear. that doesn't show he resurected or ascended to heaven. why would his body need to disapear anyway? didn't he have a soul?
6. "Nobody eyewitness for something that they KNOW is a lie, i.e. the disciples said they saw, ate, and touched the Risen Christ, and got killed for saying that. Why would the N.T. writers endure persecution, torture, and death for a fictional story?" eyewitness lie all the time. now you also say they endure persecution for their believes, that is false if they had kept their believes to themselfs they wouldnt be persecuted, clearly those early christians were annoying prolitzerisers who didn't convince the many that therefore "persecuted" them. many cult followers endure persecution, torture, and death. they believed the stories true. just like other followers of other religions.
7. his disciples were "historical novelists?" not so much, plus they believed it im sure, im not saying they were secrete atheists[maybe Saul]. they were clearly his loyal cult followers. how much the bible sales matters little. if harry potter books outsold the bible you would be dismissing the fact as unconsequential. once the Qu'ran starts outselling the versions of the bible, you will dismiss it as well. so therefore i dismiss the fallacy that because it sales well it is more credible.
8. so the old testament and bible in general are very close to original: why does that matter, so are the Qu'ran and Book of Mormon.
9. " ["I say unequivocally that the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is so overwhelming that it compels acceptance by proof which leaves absolutely no room for doubt!"
- Sir Lionel Luckhoo, listed in the Guiness Book of Records as the most successful attorney in history] "
Sir Lionel Luckhoo was a defense atterney for murderers and was a devious and thus successfull lawyer. he would always try to find the dumb sheep in the pack and completly convince that jurer of the innocence of his client. one jurer was all he needed. then he could move on the the other jurers and try to give them more reasonable dought. his clients got away with murder on technicalities and not enough evidence etc. He said he was a christian,and was a radical christian evangelical and began his ministries and other coorporations. He was also the legal personal representative of the Reverend Jim Jones. Jim managed to convince his congregation to commit suicide, for the worthless cause of his reputation and maintenance of power. Luckhoo represented him and adviced his radical friend Jones on legal matters, in how best to bend the law in his evil favor.
10. your last point is mute on my point that Lord Sidhartha Gautama has been regarded as a God by his cult followers for far longer than Jesus of Nazareth has by his. your "objective truth" relies on hearsay and believing cult followers. Again i answer your question: obscure people become famous people all the time. did muhamud "split the moon" with his faith? no his cult followers lied. Jesus didn't need to do anything huge, just have his crazy followers say he did. did jesus split the moon? no. what was this wonderful miracle for all to see? he died. and his body disappeared after three days. WOW. clearly Jesus could have converted the whole world, but he didn't seam to have enough faith to have the power to just show everyone his HUGE magical abilities.
11. do you know what the strait line looks like? NO you are agnostic. WE define what a straight line looks like. it is an unproven theory, perhaps unproveable, an AXIOM. Thus, i deam that i am closer to the truth. my axiom is the one with the least assumptions. you confuse and compound the theorys of science, to make them seam unrealistic, because they do not accord with your large assumed axiom. no scientist says we came from mud. christians do. no scientists says everything came from nothing. christians say God created everything from nothing. you assume something had to be there as a starting point. you assume there is a starting point. you deam non-christians unable to realize the complexity of your seamingly contradicting God, i deam that you do not want to imagine the complexity of existance. that's right, its not creation, its existance. thus your axiom of Religion is lesser truth than my axiom of Agnosticism.
12. i was talking to a non-jesus-follower. i told him christianity was supposed to be fullfilled jewdaism. he said this when i explained that jesusism was just a form of jewdaism: {{He will come back? He isn't the Messiah until he does what the Messiah is supposed to do. If you say "Jesus is the Messiah" and I say "but he didn't fulfill the prophesies" then you say "But he will come back to fulfill them" then you're agreeing with me. You, basically, just agreed that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesies. Therefore, you cannot call him the Messiah.}} i tried to explain how jesus said he was there to restore/enforce God's law: {{God's law? Jesus restored God's law? Do you even know what God's law is? There's 5 books of it including a vast teeming oral tradition. And after Jesus came, people stopped following God's laws.}} he explained how jesus followers created a whole new religion[like protestants claim Mormons did] and completely forsake God's laws: "do not perform human sacrafice, i gave you animals to sacrafise their blood". your god required blood sacrafises its just disgusting. I donot see how Jesus is Messiah, nor how Jewdaism is the true religion. Clearly as Gautama explained, God is too all-encompasing to have a religon. Only Demons and non-gods have and make religions. He was not tempted by the fear of death, into allowing angels or demons[polytheistic gods] to give him a religion to follow. I deam however, that gautama, while fighting the demons of fear of death, let in the angels of fear of living, who ask for people to detatch from the world. and what are angels, but another kind of Jin.
Truely however, these are all just fairy tales...science being the only true way to learn about existance.
 
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Luminous

non-existential luminary
And she responds:
Gautama/ Buddha was a spiritual teacher in the north eastern region of the Indian subcontinent who founded Buddhism. No one regards him as God.

Jesus fulfilled the law, in that because He is God, He is Perfect... so He is the law accomplished, since He is perfect. He took our place because we couldn't be perfect ourselves. Only God can be perfect, since He is the Ultimate Constant of reality and Creator of all.

You have eye-witness attestation, sources from outside the Bible, etc... testifying to the reliability of Christ. We have the most manuscripts (handwritten copies) of any other ancient work in history. This shows the tremendous impact Christ had on humanity.

Not only that... but what Jesus did makes sense, it's logical... here tell me what you think of this:

I can't make a pancake, because my hands are swollen.

I can't as a human measure up to God, because I'm limited.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I can't make a pancake myself, the only way of having a pancake is:

a) It appears out of nothing
b) I imagine it in my mind and it makes itself
C) Someone else makes it for me


So if I can't as a human measure up to God myself, the only way I can measure up to Him is that someone else does it for me.

But who can measure up to God though?

No one. Only God can measure up to Himself.

Consequently, the only way TO Him is that God does it FOR me.

But how? I'm human, how can He do it for me?

Solution: God becomes a man and does it for me (this is what He did in Christ). God becomes human and measures up to Himself FOR me, since I can't do it myself and only God can measure up to Himself.

Result: Heart is humbled and completely dependent on God, and not ourselves or our actions as if we could measure up to Him. We completely trust God for our salvation/survival/existence.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

-Andrea



12. With Mike Licona - The Resurrection
The One Minute Apologist interviews special guest Mike Licona, about the facts and evidence behind the Resurrection of Christ. Just taking the facts without assumption of the Bible..... proving that the Resurrection really happened.
see!!!! im illogical !!!
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
ahhh, i see i was wrong... you have better knowledge of Bible than I. See Jesus didn't change laws of God. :D. that people stopped following God's law on count of Jesus' comming is not Jesus fault. besides didn't most jews remain jew? so christianity is just an attempt to spread truth to non-jews. and i dont know if jesus said he would be last sacrafise, plus one of gods law was no human sacrafise or eating blood. this does bring me back to my agnostic faith. thank you.:)
Well that was quite the adventure. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
fantôme profane;1829049 said:
Well that was quite the adventure. Thanks for taking us along for the ride.
NOOOO she keeps replying! i cant let her have the last word. :angel2:
 
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