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I am not an identity: not ideas, not neurones, but the world itself

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Solipsism?

Or 'hivemind/groupthink' with a "first among equals" approach?

The understanding that "I am this world itself" means that "I, this body-mind, is the world" is a mistake of ego. I think a short explanation is due.

The body is insentient and does not say ‘I am this body’. On the other hand, no one says ‘I’ in sleep. What is the ego then? It is something intermediate between the inert body and the whole consciousness that in the theory of Riccardo is the whole world itself. Ego "I" in fact has no locus standi. We may imagine shadows to be ghosts but on looking closely the ghosts vanish. The ghosts were never there. So also with the ego. It is an intangible link between the body and pure consciousness. It is imagined and if unexamined it continues to give trouble. But when one looks for it, it is found not to exist.

@A Vestigial Mote
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The understanding that "I am this world itself" means that "I, this body-mind, is the world" is a mistake of ego. I think a short explanation is due.

The body is insentient and does not say ‘I am this body’. On the other hand, no one says ‘I’ in sleep. What is the ego then? It is something intermediate between the inert body and the whole consciousness that in the theory of Riccardo is the whole world itself. Ego "I" in fact has no locus standi. We may imagine shadows to be ghosts but on looking closely the ghosts vanish. The ghosts were never there. So also with the ego. It is an intangible link between the body and pure consciousness. It is imagined and if unexamined it continues to give trouble. But when one looks for it, it is found not to exist.

@A Vestigial Mote
Most of what you say I end up agreeing with - I just don't see what we term "consciousness" as extending beyond our comprehensive "self" (that is - body as it exists, all matter/cells/life, all energy). I see consciousness as (in the human case) a mere property of the mind/body combo. I agree with you that 95% (more, I would say) of what we "are" is NOT "the mind," nor is it what we generally consider our "consciousness." That 95+% is instead comprised of trillions upon trillions of other, individual lives, who are themselves comprised of the matter and energy of the universe, and are themselves SEPARATELY conscious in their way. Think about it - within your body are trillions of other beings who are each having their own experience right now. Our "higher form" of consciousness is completely unknown to them. They merely perform the tasks they have been given, and yet they are autonomous and so they too possess some form of self-awareness - but it is entirely separate from our own - and each piece MUST necessarily communicate to other pieces using physical/energy media. I believe our human "consciousness" has also been given a task, and we are each carrying it out. We let the "control" we appear to have over our bodies (the decisions of where to go, how to move, what to eat/drink, etc.) make us believe that our mind is the important part of it all - but this is a farce, which I believe is mostly brought about by our basic instincts to survive, thrive and dominate all in our path toward those ends. Each and every system and part in the body is as important as another. But I would never make any sort of claim that something external to my body is "as important" to my overall being as what is inside - something like a stone, for example. To term everything external to myself some part of overall "consciousness" is a waste, in my opinion. It doesn't mean anything. Or, rather, it negates the meaning of consciousness - and relegates it to a nothing, a trifle. The things that are a part of me in the way that leads to my continued ability to experience - the self-aware bits that do all the work of keeping me alive - those are not like the stone, and I am only "alive" to experience things now because of that.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Most of what you say I end up agreeing with - I just don't see what we term "consciousness" as extending beyond our comprehensive "self" (that is - body as it exists, all matter/cells/life, all energy). I see consciousness as (in the human case) a mere property of the mind/body combo. ...

Alas. You earlier talked about specialness. Let me humbly ask how are you so confirmed in your view that consciousness is a property of matter/cell/ life etc. when you accept that 95% of oneself is beyond one's conscious mind? If consciousness was intrinsic property of matter/ceells then matter/cells would exhibit the power of knowing always. Is that ever true?

...
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Alas. You earlier talked about specialness. Let me humbly ask how are you so confirmed in your view that consciousness is a property of matter/cell/ life etc. when you accept that 95% of oneself is beyond one's conscious mind? If consciousness was intrinsic property of matter/ceells then matter/cells would exhibit the power of knowing always. Is that ever true?

...
When I agree or concur that "95%" of what goes on with us happens outside of the control of the conscious mind, that's merely a nod to the fact that other beings of varying "awareness" (as we would tend to define it) are the ones who are meting out that 95%. They have some level of "consciousness," to be sure - but again, that just means all the more that consciousness itself isn't all that "special." And I wouldn't say it is an "intrinsic" property... but an emergent one. Meaning under the right circumstances, there it is. Like diamonds forming, or the hexagonal storm that roars above the pole of Saturn.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
When I agree or concur that "95%" of what goes on with us happens outside of the control of the conscious mind, that's merely a nod to the fact that other beings of varying "awareness" (as we would tend to define it) are the ones who are meting out that 95%. They have some level of "consciousness," to be sure - but again, that just means all the more that consciousness itself isn't all that "special." And I wouldn't say it is an "intrinsic" property... but an emergent one. Meaning under the right circumstances, there it is. Like diamonds forming, or the hexagonal storm that roars above the pole of Saturn.

Can you prove that consciousness is an emerging property? Or is it a unfalsifiable claim?
 
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