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I Am A Christian!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ChristineES, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    If this is any standard for qualifying a Good Christian......
    May God grant us all the wisdom to be bad so bad, very very bad, the baddest of bad,the baddest of the baddest of the bad :eek:
     
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  2. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    The Epistle of John is quite clear to not allow heathens into your home. There's really no way to interpret it differently, but of what "heathen" means. You either agree or snip it out. Also, in Galatians, Paul said "Let anyone who preaches a doctrine different than me be damned". As for hate itself, you must define what hate means and then ask yourself if some of the most evil people aren't undeserving of what is called "Hate".

    Why not? Paul says for Slaves to be obedient to their masters. You are not supposed to let the social opinions of the world affect your beliefs. Why should you let abolitionists tell you what to believe? Slavery goes on today worldwide, you don't see these liberals organizing underground railroads to help them. Many of them have probably paid for services of human trafficking before even.
    The notion that the Bible says the Earth is flat is a demonstration of people accusing it of such of not having any clue whatsoever about the language involved. The word "Earth" always means "Land". There is no word for "Planet Earth". "Corners of the Earth" does not mean "The Earth is a Square", it is a phrase to mean "Ends of the land". The word 'Land" does not mean "Planet Earth", but it can refer to the known regions of said Earth.

    As for believing the Earth is 6000 years old, that is a matter of scientific debate, I say 13,000. But this is not the science vs. religion category. It's basically a matter of whether you believe blindly with Atheist Scientific consensus and don't question their claims such as why the Earth hasn't spiraled into the sun or hit the moon by now for that matter. I say you SHOULD believe it as such if you want to conform to the beliefs of what a "Christian" in the old days would have believed before modern liberalism creeped in. There's nothing particularly scientific about the claims of an old Earth considering the RAW DATA IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC EXAMINATION. So if you believe it's bad for a Christian to believe that scientists are lying and hiding things, enjoy some Aspartame while you're at it. It's totally safe the scientists say. And of course their Raw data isn't available either here.
    No. However, judging people is something you should ALWAYS do. If you don't judge people correctly, you could get killed or worse. What you shouldn't do is judge when you shouldn't judge. Jesus did not say "Do not judge", that's been a popular thread topic in the past. What I do believe you CAN do is say "According to the Bible, such a behavior Jesus warns leads to hellfire". But this begins a whole "Saved by grace" and "Saved by works" doctrinal debate, in which the "Saved by grace" belief tries to shuffle around, turning how Jesus clearly said that your bad behavior sends you to hell into something different about just applying to non-believers.

    "Let anyone who teaches a doctrine different than me be damned". Combined with the fact that you're not supposed to let a heathen into your house even, yes, you are in fact encouraged to disparage other faiths, however, to do so truthfully, reasonably, critically, and not just things like blind Quran burnings. Instead, to be able to rationally argue against the beliefs of those who have critically opposed views.
    In order to define what a "bad Christian" means, you must first define what being a "Christian" means in the first place, which is another popular thread topic. By the BIBLICAL definition of Christian, virtually everyone who claims to be Christian is in fact a "bad" Christian if by "bad" you mean "one who is not aspiring to do what it says to do and is instead backpedaling or not even trying". That would include me as well.
     
    #82 Shermana, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  3. crocusj

    crocusj Active Member

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    Don't know about you personally but.....two policewomen were killed in UK on Tuesday. Brutal, deliberate slaughter and I don't want to sully their memory with trivia but its not trivia. Both women served their communities with distinction, both were career policewomen who went into all situations unarmed, both did the same job and were killed at the same time for doing that job. Also, both were engaged. Only one of them could get married, however. And only the Christians can explain why only one. I do hope you are a bad Christian.
     
  4. otokage007

    otokage007 Well-Known Member

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    because they are often wonderful persons :)
     
  5. Tranquil Servant

    Tranquil Servant Was M.I.A for a while

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    Speaking of slaves... I looked up the word "slave" in the Bible (Biblegateway.com) under the Kings James version of the Bible and only 2 passages popped up. What is the difference between slaves, workers, servants, and employees? I always thought when the Bible mentions something about slaves, it didn't always (literally) mean slaver but employee since the word doesn't exist in the Bible. I always thought God was against "slavery"(e.g. when God helped Moses free the Hebrew slaves) and in the Bible, God always refers to people who fall into the temptation of sin "slaves."

    (I usually like your responses Shermana) but I have to disagree with the slavery thing..
    Just because slavery exists today doesn't mean it's right..(unless the "slaves" are being compensated in which case, I don't consider it to be "slavery")
    Colossians 4:1
    Slave owners, be fair and honest with your slaves. Don’t forget that you have a Master in heaven.
     
  6. waitasec

    waitasec Veteran Member

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    and beating a slave within an inch of their lives is considered...a fringe benefit?
    :facepalm:
     
  7. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism
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    But what about Deborah? What about the "woman at the well"? Honestly, if what you say is true then Deborah should not have judged Israel. And what all those other women? I think most Christians rely too much on Paul's teachings-- I have always thought so.
     
  8. Tranquil Servant

    Tranquil Servant Was M.I.A for a while

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    sigh....
     
  9. waitasec

    waitasec Veteran Member

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    yeah, this slavery disclaimer gets really old, don't it?
     
  10. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    From the above it sounds like you're a Christian with a persecution complex :)

    I mean it light-heartedly. It comes from seeing too many hostile posts.

    Don't worry; Be Happy.....and I'm sure you are
     
  11. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    Employers have a right to beat their employees from an inch of their lives?

    Employers put awl picks through the ears of their employees if the employees don't want to leave after a 7 year contract?

    I'm assuming you're not familiar with the OT rules about how to treat your "Employee"?

    At best, it's a form of indentured servitude, but it can also apply to the "Forced labor" that captured prisoners are supposed to perform as well.

    As for whether it's "right", if it was "wrong" then you wouldn't have provisions of how to manage your slaves. It's obviously not a "sin", unless its due to direct kidnapping (which is an executable offense). If it was a "sin" it would say "Thou shalt not have a slave at all" instead of giving rules on how to keep one.
     
    #91 Shermana, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  12. Tranquil Servant

    Tranquil Servant Was M.I.A for a while

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    Slavery may have been permissible in those days but even if it was, If it was permissible in the way we define "slavery" today, God wouldn't have made provisions on how to treat or manage them and like I said before in certain instances he wouldn't have commanded to set certain people free like Hagar. We (Human beings) have evolved since then and by applying provisions (or stipulations) to servitude, hence the definition of "slave" is different from "employee". How many of us have been employed and said "I'm working like a slave"? (I know I have) but we're not actually slaves..because actual slaves are treated unfairly which God (in the Bible)) warns us about.
     
  13. ron4711

    ron4711 Member

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    KJ uses words like bondage for slavery and bondmaid for female slave and bondmen for male slaves
    Check out Leviticus 22:11 in various editions, KJ reffers to slaves as souls
     
  14. Shermana

    Shermana Heretic

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    1. Please show where God Himself commands Hagar to be set free.
    2. Please show the differences between the Biblically defined instances of slavery, in detail, and "modern slavery", as opposed to "Egyptian Slavery" or "Medieval Turkish slavery".
    3. I assume you are retracting that notion that "Biblical slavery = employment".
    4. The provisions on how to treat and manage them imply that they are OWNED and MASTERED. An employee may be "managed" but he is not mastered. Even in pre-labor-union union factory conditions, which can be comparable to if not worse than indentured slavery.

    Physically? Culturally? Slavery is still rampant in Africa, the Middle East, Latin America, and Asia (and Eastern Europe), and its services are well trafficked by Americans and Europeans and Asians and Africans on a very regular basis. Minimum wage in a way is even less pay than 1800s slaves got, which included full rent, full food (and a relatively lot of it too), full medical, and everything else. Minimum wage is possibly even worse than Slavery in that it exchanges "freedom" for less than minimal conditions. In Israelite days, slaves often sold themselves into such. The rules still set them as second class citizens. If you murdered a slave, it was not a death penalty crime necessarily for example. The common idea is that if you have become a slave, you deserve it by wickedness. Regardless, there is no way you can possibly compare an Israelite Indentured Servant, let alone a purchased gentile slave to an employee.

    I am assuming you have NOT read the provisions on Biblical slaves since I mentioned this last time, am I correct when I say that you have NOT familiarized yourself with the OT verses about Slavery? If this is the case, please take the time to educate yourself so you can get to the same level before your next reply.

    The very fact that the Israelite slave is bound for 7 years, while gentile slaves are bound forever, proves your notion that "Slave" is not exactly "Employee". Seriously, I challenge you to find a SINGLE commentary that says that a Biblical slave was not much different than a modern employee. In terms of wages and purchasing parity, the Slave probably had it much better than a Minimum wage Fast food worker. Nonetheless, one can extract a similar message that Paul is quoting on an Employee-Employer relationship. But that however was not the point of this particular contention.
    Ultimately you're trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say by applying modernistic notions to an ancient cultural concept. No dice. Now if you want to say that Managers should treat employees with kindness and for employees to shut up and obey complacently in the example that Paul sets forth with masters and slaves, that's one thing. But to redefine the Bible to say that it didn't condone slavery or that it would condemn it today necessarily is completely out of left field, in liberal apologetics land.
     
    #94 Shermana, Sep 22, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  15. Me Myself

    Me Myself Back to my username

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    She cannot do this because she is a woman. At least according to a literalist reading of the bible. Paul was straightforward: women cannot teach or be in a position of authority over men. So she could not teach this "spiritual truth" to men. After all, and the way Paul puts it "Adam was made first, and it was Eve who was deceived by the serpent"
     
  16. uu_sage

    uu_sage Active Member

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    Doing and adhering to the beliefs you just listed makes you a bad Christian. Loving, accepting, forgiving and serving like Jesus did makes you a good Christian.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    No. I simply believe this is what the scripture is telling us. My purpose was to give Christine a guideline to measure her Christianity.

    I do judge. It is an authority given to me just as we give court justices authority to judge.

    We don't consider sin an inalienable right.

    I am doing what God gives me authority to do.

    We are discussing that on a different thread.

    If a person misinterprets the Bible then it isn't the truth of God. I can stand for the truth of God because I don't misinterpret the Bible.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    This is a misinterpretation of scripture.

    That is not a problem since my eye is clear. It matters not that I judge. People try to judge me anyway.

    Pride goes before a fall. I don't mind scrutiny because Jesus in me does not sin. No-one should judge unfairly and God takes exception to those who do.

    I don't respect poop and I don't respect sin.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    Are you trying to say that you prefer being bad over being good. I would suggest that you wouldn't even qualify as a Jew, Muslim or Hindu on that basis.
     
  20. Iti oj

    Iti oj Global warming is real and we need to act
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    I hope you see this. Not only are you a christian but.you are very christ like
    thank you for your love compassion and positivity
     
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