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I’m a Conservative Who Got Heckled at Yale Law School. But Not by Who You Think.

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by sun rise, Nov 21, 2022.

  1. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    Some things occur to me. First is that RF perhaps does better than Yale and other places in not shutting down written speech. Debates can get pretty heated and I've been part of that myself, of course. But we've managed to avoid the worst of what has been occurring elsewhere. I also have no problem with a school banning unhinged violence-dinged ranting on the part of staff or speakers.

    But I also agree with the author that there's a fundamentalist religious overtone to politics with all the negative aspects that engenders.


    I’m a Conservative Who Got Heckled at Yale Law School. But Not by Who You Think.

    This spring, I spoke at Yale Law School.
    ... Things went fine enough, and the room started to relax. Then a conservative student launched into a tirade because he had seen me hug the associate dean of students earlier in the afternoon. I’d known her since I was a first-year law student at Harvard more than 15 years ago. Though I was the president of the Harvard Federalist Society and she was a well-documented liberal, she had helped me innumerable times on campus. She supported me when the faculty and administrators selected me as class day speaker at graduation. A few years later, we stood together at the White House when our former dean, Elena Kagan, was confirmed as an associate justice to the Supreme Court. When I hugged her at Yale this spring, she had just congratulated me on having a baby at the height of the pandemic.

    The law student didn’t know any of this, but was offended by this display of non-ideological human interaction and accused me of “buddying up” with his enemy.
    ...
    And my own interaction with a conservative student shows how much today’s students — across the ideological spectrum — are incapable of separating the personal from the political, how they view the opposing side as enemies unworthy of being listened to.

    The result is intellectual close mindedness on both sides: Neither side needs to engage with the other because there is nothing left to debate in their view.
    ...
    Our ability to speak to one another — across states and oceans — has never been more easily attainable. Yet our desire to listen to those who have a different view has never been weaker. As religious commitment has decreased, politics has become the new faith. And faith does not bend to reason. It is not up for argument. Faith does not tolerate heretics.

    But the law must do all of these things. At Yale, in Judge Ho’s chambers, and at the Supreme Court.
     
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  2. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    In the Congress many members form friendships with members of the other part.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I find it interesting that these two conditions may well be inter-related. In that the more available differing points of view become, the less appreciated they are. Intil perhaps a point is reached where there are simply "too many" of them, and they are all then rejected, in advance or even being heard.

    It's a side of the "information highway" that we perhaps did not see coming.
    I take some issue with the use of the term "faith", here. I think what you're really referring to is religious dogma being replaced with political dogma. And it's the dogmatism that cannot tolerate debate or dissent. That sure does seem to be happening. Not only that, but religious dogma is becoming political dogma, and likewise. As apparently the human need to grab onto some sort of 'beacon of righteousness' has not diminished even though it is less and and less being defined and held forth by religion.

    Two very interesting observations. Thank you.
     
    #4 PureX, Nov 21, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
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  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    But aren't we supposed to be intolerant towards the intolerant?
    I've heard many fervent arguments opposing being friendly or
    even civil towards such evil reprobates.
     
  6. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    Yes, dogma is a better word.
     
  7. Aštra’el

    Aštra’el Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth

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    Says who?
     
  8. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry The "I" in Reality

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    I've taken this as more intolerant of intolerant ideas, and I see where this thinking comes from. If a person is arguing that folks with different skin colors are inferior to other folks, am I supposed to tolerate this when I have loved ones directly impacted negatively by this view?

    I think of this when the topic of LGBTQ issues comes up with family. Folks I love and respect will support outright discrimination against these folks, some of whom are also family members or friends I also love and respect.
     
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  9. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Yup, I'd agree with this addition. Dogmatic views in any form, really.
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Intolerant towards intolerant arguments, perhaps. But we need to remember to separate potentially complex and nuanced and changeable humans from a stated idea.

    Attack the idea.
     
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  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    My parents voted against marriage equality here, but were completely unable to adequately defend their position. It baffles me to this day. We used it to try and teach out kids about the difference between loving a person because of their holistic being, and strongly disagreeing with an aspect of their worldview.
     
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  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Well, I don't want to call anyone out.
    But I've had such vigorous discussions here.
    Let's just say that liberals are the only ones
    who argue against my calls for civil discourse
    towards political foes.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    You're supposed to (IMO) not berate the person,
    but convince them to change their views. This is
    best served with civility, reason, & even friendliness.

    Yes, one can be friendly with people who hold evil
    beliefs, eg, my several marxist friends.
    May your keen social skills & sharp intellect
    work wonders turning them progressive.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    What is "intolerance" towards an intolerant argument?
    Is it superior to a reasoned civil argument towards it?
    Agree.
     
  15. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    I agree completely. It would appear that today's universities have closed down open forums and discussions.

    Even beyond separating the personal from the political, it is just a lack of listening, discussing and healthy debate.
     
  16. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I would tend to agree with this, and I don't think anyone is saying that we should tolerate the intolerant. My only real complaint along these lines is when people seem to want to present an incomplete or selective picture about how and where these intolerant ideas come from. By not understanding where they come from, society is ill-equipped to stop them. And that's why they persist and even seem to be getting worse.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I think that that attitude will be held by some of the young firebrands from both sides. The old pros know that even problems like Trump come and go.
     
  18. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    That's actually a fine question.

    However, I'm going to play the old 'it depends on the context' argument. I can certainly imagine situations where outright intolerance of intolerance is the most appropriate response, imho. These would be more at the direct point of intolerant speech and actions causing immediate harm.

    But generally reasoned civil argument is preferable.
     
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  19. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    It takes two to tango. When the reps made it their party line to obstruct every democratic attempt during the Obama administration, they closed the line. When Moscow Mitch prevented Obama's appointee Justice to even get a hearing (and then fast tracked one appointed by Trump), the reps restated the rules.
    You can't compromise with such people, you have to play their game.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Old firebrands too.
     
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