Hysteria, lies, facts, and rifles

[shmogie]

If one listens to the hysterical liberal voices, one will be convinced that we are awash in violent crime. Further, you will be convinced that at the heart of this crime, is the murderous evil machine, the so called assault rifle. The so called assault rifle is a semi automatic rifle, that looks frightening to some.

What do actual facts have to say about this narrative of those who despise these firearms ?

The FBI has released it's detailed report " Crime in the United States" for the year 2018. This report is based on upon statistics from all law enforcement entities in the US. These then are analyzed by the FBI and are presented as an overall national report.

What does the report tell us ? Violent crime reached an all time low in 2014, then ticked up slightly and now is declining again, all classifications of violent crime are reduced for 2018.

What about the black rifles, no doubt they have become a significant factor in murders, right ? Right here in this forum we have been told they must be banned as they are responsible for the deaths of so many people.

In 2018 rifles of ALL types were responsible for fewer homicides than knives ( 11% ) hands, fists, and feet (5%) and blunt objects ( 3% ) rifles of ALL types accounted for ( 2%) of all homicides in 2018.

In the management idea of the "critical few" one logically addresses the few problems that that have the most significant impact. So called assault rifles are not anywhere close to being part of the critical few in murders, knives are a much more important factor.

So why the hysteria and the drive to ban these rifles ? What prompted a democrat candidate for president to say that he wanted the police to go to each home where one of these firearms resides, and forcefully take it from it's owner ?

Emotion, and symbolism. It is truly an emotional experience when one considers the "mass shootings" where these rifles have been used. Yet semi automatic rifles have been around for a century. Obviously, mass shootings are not caused by the choice of weapon by the shooter. Emotionally, with all the hype, and the lies presented, one can be convinced that less than 2% of murders are actually a huge number, especially if one wants to believe it.

Symbolism is a technique employed by the left quite often. They decide what part of society they want to control, and create a symbol representing it. Liberals have for a long time wanted to control Firearms ownership, access, and use. Why ? I can only speculate, and here is not the place to do so.

Nevertheless, the so called assault rifle has become the perfect symbol of control over the Second Amendment to the Constitution. After all, the military uses rifles that look much the same, therefore the rifle is only for killing people, therefore the citizenry should have no right to own one. A perfect summation of the position on owning any firearm. The so called assault rifle takes on the guise of a massive killing machine, when actually hands and feet kill many more.

The next time you hear someone spouting off on how dangerous the black rifle is, or how many people are killed by it, or why people should be denied the right to own one, remember that you are hearing massive lies. Something that is responsible for less than 2% of all murders is not at all as it is being portrayed, no rifle is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Let's make sure everyone knows this:
Trump has been more anti gun since Obama, being the most anti gun president since Clinton.

 

[metis]

Maybe somehow someone can explain to us how the proliferation of guns is making us safer whereas we have a several times higher homicide rate as compared to western Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc.?

Aren't the daily news reports citing shootings enough to show that having more guns tends to relate to more shootings? Are we to believe that if we have more cars on the road that this will lead to fewer car accidents?

 

[pearl]

Symbolism

Are you referring to victims of mass murders via an assault rifle, as symbols? These are not the usual gun crimes and ought not to be counted in with statistics on lower crime rate.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If one listens to the hysterical liberal voices, one will be convinced that we are awash in violent crime.

Funny. That seems to be what Conservatives are actually saying. Only they blame immigrants, not guns.

Further, you will be convinced that at the heart of this crime, is the murderous evil machine, the so called assault rifle. The so called assault rifle is a semi automatic rifle, that looks frightening to some.

Can you give some examples of liberals claiming that assault rifles are solely (or mostly) responsible for violent crime?

The FBI has released it's detailed report " Crime in the United States" for the year 2018. This report is based on upon statistics from all law enforcement entities in the US. These then are analyzed by the FBI and are presented as an overall national report.

What does the report tell us ? Violent crime reached an all time low in 2014, then ticked up slightly and now is declining again, all classifications of violent crime are reduced for 2018.

While this is true for violent crime, do you know what it ISN'T true for?

Firearm-related deaths. Which, in 2017, reached its highest level since 1968.
SOURCE: New CDC Data Show that Nearly 40,000 People Died by Guns in 2017

What about the black rifles, no doubt they have become a significant factor in murders, right ? Right here in this forum we have been told they must be banned as they are responsible for the deaths of so many people.

In 2018 rifles of ALL types were responsible for fewer homicides than knives ( 11% ) hands, fists, and feet (5%) and blunt objects ( 3% ) rifles of ALL types accounted for ( 2%) of all homicides in 2018.

The real question is, how many were actually murdered by rifles in individual instances? The argument has never been that rifles cause the majority, or even a significant number, of murders - it's that rifles pose greater risk of MASS death per use and serve little to no additional protections as an instrument of self-defense. Meanwhile, they are increasingly seen as a weapon of choice for mass shooters.
SOURCES:
Why AR-15-style rifles are popular among mass shooters
Why mass shooters are increasingly using AR-15s
Why the AR-15 is the mass shooter's go-to weapon
"America's rifle": The marketing of assault-style weapons
https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...ecame-one-of-the-most-popular-guns-in-america

In short, assault rifles like the AR-15 don't increase personal safety any more than a handgun does, so the only function they really serve in being so readily available is benefiting mass shooters.

In the management idea of the "critical few" one logically addresses the few problems that that have the most significant impact. So called assault rifles are not anywhere close to being part of the critical few in murders, knives are a much more important factor.

Two points:

1) How critical are they in MASS shootings?

2) Why haven't you mentioned all firearms in this paragraph? That seems like a really weird omission... Let's see what the FBI report has to say about that.

(Emphasis mine)

"Information collected regarding types of weapons used in violent crime showed that firearms were used in 72.7 percent of the nation’s murders, 38.5 percent of robberies, and 26.1 percent of aggravated assaults. (Weapons data are not collected for rape.) (See Expanded Homicide Data Table 7, Robbery Table 3, and the Aggravated Assault Table.)"​

SOURCE: Violent Crime

​

Gee, I wonder why you deliberately missed that out?

Double gee, I wonder why in this entire post you never actually LINKED the FBI's report?

Triple gee, I wonder if maybe your intention was not to inform but to deliberately mislead everybody with empty rhetoric?

Actually, in retrospect, the above three "gees" probably aren't fair. See, truth is that I'm not even sure the FBI's report is actually your direct source on this. More likely, you read some right-wing website that deliberately omitted this information in their reporting on the figures (like Breitbart did), and you never actually looked at the figures directly yourself. If you did, I would trust that you probably wouldn't have omitted the information, as to do so is obviously quite deliberate and dishonest.

So the question remains: Why did you not cite a source for these figures or link the FBI study? Did you just not read it at all and just took some website's word for it? And if so, were you aware that this website wouldn't have much credibility and that's why you didn't cite them as a source?

This just raises a heck of a lot of questions.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If one listens to the hysterical liberal voices, one will be convinced that we are awash in violent crime. Further, you will be convinced that at the heart of this crime, is the murderous evil machine, the so called assault rifle. The so called assault rifle is a semi automatic rifle, that looks frightening to some.

What do actual facts have to say about this narrative of those who despise these firearms ?

The FBI has released it's detailed report " Crime in the United States" for the year 2018. This report is based on upon statistics from all law enforcement entities in the US. These then are analyzed by the FBI and are presented as an overall national report.

What does the report tell us ? Violent crime reached an all time low in 2014, then ticked up slightly and now is declining again, all classifications of violent crime are reduced for 2018.

What about the black rifles, no doubt they have become a significant factor in murders, right ? Right here in this forum we have been told they must be banned as they are responsible for the deaths of so many people.

In 2018 rifles of ALL types were responsible for fewer homicides than knives ( 11% ) hands, fists, and feet (5%) and blunt objects ( 3% ) rifles of ALL types accounted for ( 2%) of all homicides in 2018.

In the management idea of the "critical few" one logically addresses the few problems that that have the most significant impact. So called assault rifles are not anywhere close to being part of the critical few in murders, knives are a much more important factor.

So why the hysteria and the drive to ban these rifles ? What prompted a democrat candidate for president to say that he wanted the police to go to each home where one of these firearms resides, and forcefully take it from it's owner ?

Emotion, and symbolism. It is truly an emotional experience when one considers the "mass shootings" where these rifles have been used. Yet semi automatic rifles have been around for a century. Obviously, mass shootings are not caused by the choice of weapon by the shooter. Emotionally, with all the hype, and the lies presented, one can be convinced that less than 2% of murders are actually a huge number, especially if one wants to believe it.

Symbolism is a technique employed by the left quite often. They decide what part of society they want to control, and create a symbol representing it. Liberals have for a long time wanted to control Firearms ownership, access, and use. Why ? I can only speculate, and here is not the place to do so.

Nevertheless, the so called assault rifle has become the perfect symbol of control over the Second Amendment to the Constitution. After all, the military uses rifles that look much the same, therefore the rifle is only for killing people, therefore the citizenry should have no right to own one. A perfect summation of the position on owning any firearm. The so called assault rifle takes on the guise of a massive killing machine, when actually hands and feet kill many more.

The next time you hear someone spouting off on how dangerous the black rifle is, or how many people are killed by it, or why people should be denied the right to own one, remember that you are hearing massive lies. Something that is responsible for less than 2% of all murders is not at all as it is being portrayed, no rifle is.

I think it's especially callous and tactless of you to minimize the problem of semi-auto rifles on December 6 of all days. Today is the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women, which is commemorated on the anniversary of the Ecole Polytechnique Massacre, where a gunman armed with a semi-auto rifle (though admittedly not an "assault rifle") killed 14 women in 1989. Was coverage of this commemoration in social media what inspired you to post this today?

However, it seems like you just managed to argue that a gun control strategy that isn't focused on handguns isn't addressing the core of the gun violence problem.

... which is true. Gun violence is predominantly handgun violence. Access to handguns is a much bigger problem than access to "assault rifles."

Of course, the reason why "assault rifles" get the focus they do isn't because of the number of people they kill. It's because they're clearly designed around the goal of giving the person carrying them the ability to kill a large number of people at distances beyond normal handgun range.

Ownership of "assault rifles" can't be justified by things like hunting or "self-defense" (as dubious as the idea of keeping guns for self-defense is). They have no use beyond killing people; that's why people try to ban them.

 

[bobhikes]

The next time you hear someone spouting off on how dangerous the black rifle is, or how many people are killed by it, or why people should be denied the right to own one, remember that you are hearing massive lies. Something that is responsible for less than 2% of all murders is not at all as it is being portrayed, no rifle is.

What I am interested is in Why a person needs to own an assault Rifle.

They are not good for competitive shooting
They are not good or allowed for hunting
They are not even the best gun for home invasion.

Other than planning to go to war with a government or terrorist organization why does one need an Assault Rifle. If I get a good answer for an actual use that is not provided by another gun I will fully support backing off assault rifles.

 

[sun rise]

Dickey Amendment - Wikipedia forbids the CDC from doing research into gun violence to come up with a better picture of what is going on. Gun supporters are afraid what the results would show.

Part of the issue with semi-automatic weapons and automatic weapons for that matter is what terrorists could do with them. But gun nuts don't care if a terrorist shoots many at one go as long as they can have their weapon.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

@shmogie - do you have a semi-auto rifle? If so, why?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Aren't the daily news reports citing shootings enough to show that having more guns tends to relate to more shootings?

Hysterical, terrified conservatives don't care if more people are killed. Never have, never will. They can't tell you that. They need to pretend to care about the welfare of others, so they make arguments about more guns being better for people

killed 14 women in 1989. Was coverage of this commemoration in social media what inspired you to post this today?

I assumed that it was the recent mass shooting. These are typically followed by hysterical conservatives either telling us that guns help, or it's too soon to discuss guns, or that its a mental health issue and not a gun issue.

 

[Shad]

What I am interested is in Why a person needs to own an assault Rifle.

They are not good for competitive shooting

Says who?

They are not good or allowed for hunting

Say who?

They are not even the best gun for home invasion.

Says who? Although I would favor a 20g myself

Other than planning to go to war with a government or terrorist organization why does one need an Assault Rifle.

Ergo the 2A's purpose in part.

 

[shmogie]

@shmogie - do you have a semi-auto rifle? If so, why?

I do. Since I have no interest in hunting, I use it for long distance target shooting.

 

[metis]

But gun nuts don't care if a terrorist shoots many at one go as long as they can have their weapon.

And for those whom are Christian along those lines, I wonder what their response would be to "If Jesus was still alive, do you think he'd prefer to carry an AK-47 or an AR-15 'locked & loaded'?".

Or what about this: "Then said Jesus unto him, 'Put away your sword, for he who takes up the sword will perish by the sword'" (Matthew 26[52].

 

[SigurdReginson]

Meh. I'd like to think of myself as a moderate, though I do acknowledge that my political views are more left leaning. I own guns and support the idea behind the second amendment. Here's the thing, though. Mass shootings, which assault rifles are the favored weapons to use to inflict maximum damage, are increasing in this country. There has only been evidence that this is only going to happen more. I don't think taking assault rifles away from everyone is the answer, but at the same time, people on the right just parrot the words "mental illness" dismissively and either favor inaction and riding it out (as if it was just going to go away), or solutions that are too wimpy to have any real impact on the issue.

It's deeper than "because guns" or "because mental illness." There are other countries where gun ownership is also prevalent, but they don't see the violence that we do. They have just as many mentally ill people per capita that we do as well, so if mental illness were the cause, why aren't mentally ill folks there shooting up groups of people like we are? Neither side is being genuine in response to the problem, and neither side takes it all that seriously it seems.

To seriously take the issue on would mean that we would have to start making cultural changes, because this is very much a cultural issue. These would be costly and involve uncomfortable compromises and changes from people of both sides. people don't like to be inconvenienced, so I don't see any effective changes being made any time soon.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do. Since I have no interest in hunting, I use it for long distance target shooting.

Why on earth would you need a semi-auto rifle for target shooting?

 

[Riders]

If one listens to the hysterical liberal voices, one will be convinced that we are awash in violent crime. Further, you will be convinced that at the heart of this crime, is the murderous evil machine, the so called assault rifle. The so called assault rifle is a semi automatic rifle, that looks frightening to some.

What do actual facts have to say about this narrative of those who despise these firearms ?

The FBI has released it's detailed report " Crime in the United States" for the year 2018. This report is based on upon statistics from all law enforcement entities in the US. These then are analyzed by the FBI and are presented as an overall national report.

What does the report tell us ? Violent crime reached an all time low in 2014, then ticked up slightly and now is declining again, all classifications of violent crime are reduced for 2018.

What about the black rifles, no doubt they have become a significant factor in murders, right ? Right here in this forum we have been told they must be banned as they are responsible for the deaths of so many people.

In 2018 rifles of ALL types were responsible for fewer homicides than knives ( 11% ) hands, fists, and feet (5%) and blunt objects ( 3% ) rifles of ALL types accounted for ( 2%) of all homicides in 2018.

In the management idea of the "critical few" one logically addresses the few problems that that have the most significant impact. So called assault rifles are not anywhere close to being part of the critical few in murders, knives are a much more important factor.

So why the hysteria and the drive to ban these rifles ? What prompted a democrat candidate for president to say that he wanted the police to go to each home where one of these firearms resides, and forcefully take it from it's owner ?

Emotion, and symbolism. It is truly an emotional experience when one considers the "mass shootings" where these rifles have been used. Yet semi automatic rifles have been around for a century. Obviously, mass shootings are not caused by the choice of weapon by the shooter. Emotionally, with all the hype, and the lies presented, one can be convinced that less than 2% of murders are actually a huge number, especially if one wants to believe it.

Symbolism is a technique employed by the left quite often. They decide what part of society they want to control, and create a symbol representing it. Liberals have for a long time wanted to control Firearms ownership, access, and use. Why ? I can only speculate, and here is not the place to do so.

Nevertheless, the so called assault rifle has become the perfect symbol of control over the Second Amendment to the Constitution. After all, the military uses rifles that look much the same, therefore the rifle is only for killing people, therefore the citizenry should have no right to own one. A perfect summation of the position on owning any firearm. The so called assault rifle takes on the guise of a massive killing machine, when actually hands and feet kill many more.

The next time you hear someone spouting off on how dangerous the black rifle is, or how many people are killed by it, or why people should be denied the right to own one, remember that you are hearing massive lies. Something that is responsible for less than 2% of all murders is not at all as it is being portrayed, no rifle is.

I don't like responding to so much negativity however I will respond to the all time low on crime I believe its a lie . News reports and Intervention show stuff I have seen from health professionals on tv say that drug addiction is ann time high, it is now considered a national crisis. Trump has done nothing about that! He stinks!

 

[shmogie]

What I am interested is in Why a person needs to own an assault Rifle.

They are not good for competitive shooting
They are not good or allowed for hunting
They are not even the best gun for home invasion.

Other than planning to go to war with a government or terrorist organization why does one need an Assault Rifle. If I get a good answer for an actual use that is not provided by another gun I will fully support backing off assault rifles.

Actually, the reason why someone has one is really none of your business. Having said that, you are in error in your three points. They may not be used in organized competitive shooting, but they are certainly used in non organized informal shooting matches all the time.

So called assault rifles are one of the most popular hunting rifles.

I don't know where you got your information regarding a home invasion scenario, but many so called assault rifles are superb for this event. They are shorter than most rifles or shotguns, which means they are easier to handle and bring to a firing position in a close environment, like your bedroom. They have pictinny rails on them where equipment to aid in home defense can be mounted, lights, electronic sights that allow you to be on target in an instant. Of course, these rails are used to mount scopes for hunters, as well. They fire a small, round, with a lot of stopping power.

As an instructor, I recommend these rifles for home defense just after a shotgun loaded with buckshot for the casual shooter who has not taken the time to learn, then practice the proper use of a hand gun.

My question for you is why do you think that I should justify to you my choice in owning a legal firearm ?

If I identified the particular car involved most in fatal accidents, do I have the right to query you as to why you are buying it, or why you think you "need it" ?

 

[shmogie]

Why on earth would you need a semi-auto rifle for target shooting?

Need is irrelevant. I have one and use it like many, many other people for target shooting.

 

[shmogie]

I don't like responding to so much negativity however I will respond to the all time low on crime I believe its a lie . News reports and Intervention show stuff I have seen from health professionals on tv say that drug addiction is ann time high, it is now considered a national crisis. Trump has done nothing about that! He stinks!

Do you equate someone who has an addiction to a violent criminal ? a very low percentage are.

I see, you are that kind of democrat who says, "don't confuse me with facts, I believe what I want to believe".



Trump has done much regarding the opioid crisis, do some research.

 

[shmogie]

Meh. I'd like to think of myself as a moderate, though I do acknowledge that my political views are more left leaning. I own guns and support the idea behind the second amendment. Here's the thing, though. Mass shootings, which assault rifles are the favored weapons to use to inflict maximum damage, are increasing in this country. There has only been evidence that this is only going to happen more. I don't think taking assault rifles away from everyone is the answer, but at the same time, people on the right just parrot the words "mental illness" dismissively and either favor inaction and riding it out (as if it was just going to go away), or solutions that are too wimpy to have any real impact on the issue.

It's deeper than "because guns" or "because mental illness." There are other countries where gun ownership is also prevalent, but they don't see the violence that we do. They have just as many mentally ill people per capita that we do as well, so if mental illness were the cause, why aren't mentally ill folks there shooting up groups of people like we are? Neither side is being genuine in response to the problem, and neither side takes it all that seriously it seems.

To seriously take the issue on would mean that we would have to start making cultural changes, because this is very much a cultural issue. These would be costly and involve uncomfortable compromises and changes from people of both sides. people don't like to be inconvenienced, so I don't see any effective changes being made any time soon.

Your analysis is correct. Mass shootings are horrible. Yet most of these shooters had no legal right to own the gun they had. There is a thriving black market in firearms, and anyone can tap into it to acquire a so called assault rifle.

Let's say these guns are banned ( the last ban of them showed no statistical benefit in murder statistics, in other words, the ban did nothing but restrict law abiding firearms owners, they were punished for no seeable reason) lets see what would most likely happen. Semi automatic pistols would be used , they have all the advantages of the rifle, except they are more difficult to aim. These are the most popular pistols in use, and have been for the last 30 years, there are millions upon millions of them. We have to ban them. Then revolvers would be used, a double action revolver can fire six rounds almost as fast as a semi auto. They are more difficult to reload, but a little practice with speed loaders will make the reload pretty fast, Shall we ban them as well ? They have been sold in America for 150 years,

Most gun rights advocates believe that social dynamics and modern institutions create the person that wants to commit these types of shootings. They didn;t exist when I was a kid, and firearms were much easier to acquire.

Until the war between those shortsighted haters of gun rights and those of us who defend them, is over, and we can concentrate on real solutions, you are right, nothing will get done.