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Hymn for the 81%

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Windwalker, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    "I wish you'd live the words, that you put in my mouth". I heard these word last night for the first time in a song that a disenfranchised Evangelical sang in a song he wrote to the 81% of white evangelicals, who betrayed their spiritual heritage in a compromise with truth and integrity to support Donald J. Trump.

    Many Christians were grieved by that abandonment of everything they had always taught the flock to believe in. For me personally, this phrase alone, captured my own disillusionment with them. I looked to them to teach me the way to Truth, they gave me the words of Love from scripture, they put those words in my mouth, as the song goes. Yet, they bitterly betrayed that hope they inspired from those words, in their actions and deeds.

    I have had bitterness over this over the years, and I express that here, particularly to those I see as guilty of this betrayal, this "hypocrisy" as I attack it with. I'm angry about it. You tell truth, yet you betray what you claim to believe in. Do you actually believe it, or do you just lie? Another beautiful line from his song, "You said to love the lost. I'm trying to love you now."

    I am conflicted over my past, where I reached out for the divine, hoping for you to be my guide. You put words in my mouth, of love, truth, and justice. You inspired me. Yet, you betray everything you stood for. Please "come home," this beautifully, impassioned, and Truth-filled song inspires. Take your own medicine you preach. "I wish you'd live the words, that you put in my mouth". Amen.

    I have a feeling a large number of RF members can feel this, as I did. It sucks to lose faith in something you thought held Truth.

     
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  2. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member

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    It's a very tough time for many. Maybe not the people in Congress. Maybe not the TV preachers who profit off getting political and even medical and spreading misinformation. Things are up in the air for America and the damage has been done, with us not knowing whether we will even yet be able to begin the process of repair.
     
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  3. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I'm confused about this.

    Do you want people to elect their presidents based on whether their religious values align with the president or whether they believe the president will be beneficial for the entire country? Without getting into the specifics in this case, the general argument taken to it's conclusion would have you asking Christians to chose a Christian with a terrible platform over an Atheist with a great one. Why make this type of argument at all?
     
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  4. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    It's quite simple actually. Scripture teach to love your neighbor as yourself. The ideals of this current POTUS, do not reflect Christian ideals. This has to do with one's core spiritual views of the world, and acting in accord with those. It has to do, with being Christian. It's not political. Christianity, the Law of Love, always comes first, not political parties.
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Well, as a Jew, I don't feel like I can condone Christians choosing their President based on shared religious beliefs.

    I'd rather they chose the man they felt was competent for the job, capable of leading a country of many different religious (and non) identities, and someone who will lead America as a whole forward.

    Render unto Caesar, seems like the less selfish way to go here.
     
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  6. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I think my main point is that if someone claims a system of faith as their core principles to live by, to take everything they have always preached against in an opposite political party than their own, in the name of their religious principles, and then completely betray themselves in support to the loudest, most amoral example of leadership that can emerge, then there is something broken in that faith.

    To me, this thread it more about being true to one's faith, and betraying your own core values you profess as a member of that faith. That's the pain, that song expresses. Which is my pain as well.
     
  7. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Trump's form of governance has a lot in common with Caesar's
     
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  8. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Which is ironic, as Christianity is formed in opposition to that. The kingdom of God, the true "Son of God" (which was a title of Caesar), is one contrary to force, intimidation, and coercion. The kingdom of God is about invitation, not domination with force and rule of Roman, or Trumpian law. It's painful for me to see their betrayal of the faith they taught me. "You're better than this, you taught me better than this."
     
    #8 Windwalker, Oct 24, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Alternatively, its adherents are making a more objective selection in favor of what they believe to be to the benefit of the entire country rather their own selfish desires. I don't see anything broken with that aspect of such a faith system.

    My previous point stands, you're essentially saying that you're pained by the fact that Christians are making decisions that they believe will benefit the entire American people instead of only themselves. Frankly, that's an odd sort of pain for a non-Christian to have.
     
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  10. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I certainly do not conclude that what they tell themselves, to justify themselves, is actually selfless at all. Quite the contrary. The fruits of this is divisiveness, not love, healing and unity. That is a broken system.
     
  11. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That's kind of vague. Can you point to the choices and trace the actualization of those choices to the divisiveness you're speaking about? Because quite frankly, most of the hostility I've heard about has come from the left.
     
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  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Easy. The Christian Right. Pat Robertson. John Macarthur Jr. James Dobson, et. al. They declare war upon culture. All of that is violence against others. Not unity. Division. Us vs. Them. I just pointed to it. I hope that helps.

    Do you have doubts? I don't.
     
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  13. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Yes, I have doubts. There are no Christians voting for any of these people into office today. A vote for a Republican nominee isn't a vote for any of these people. And whatever they may or may not declare, we are not seeing Christian Conservatives acting violently en masse against ...culture?... Meanwhile, we do see plenty of Conservatives who literally fear to voice their political position on college/university campuses today.
     
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  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I completely disagree with this, as does the person who wrote this song. I posted this, because it is close to home for me, having left the very same people who betrayed their faith to vote for Trump. Since you're not a Christian, what dog do you have in this fight, if I may ask?
     
  15. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    I do so wish that the forum I first stated my prediction on Trump was still in existence, but it is no longer on the Internet. As I stated to those Christians who supported Trump that he is a mentally challenged and evil person who has no empathy or compassion for anyone, and that he doesn't care about anyone but himself and to a lesser extent, his filthy rich cronies. He is ONLY in the White House to enrich himself and plans to destroy or government, our entire country, and leave it in ruins so that nobody can come after him as he and his buddies run off with as much of our tax dollars as they could get their greedy hands on.
     
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  16. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I see that this vote of the 81% of evangelicals, as literally a deal they made with the devil. Promote their beliefs, impose them upon others, at all costs, including flushing scripture down the toilet. That is what they did.

    They taught me the words of scripture, I heard them, and then they did this in complete betrayal of what they taught. Were they not sincere in their faith? "By their fruits, you shall know them". By their betrayal of Truth, they sleep with the devil. Was it ever about God for them? I more than wonder.
     
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  17. KAT-KAT

    KAT-KAT Well-Known Member

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    I'm feeling the same way.

    Whether Trump leaves next year, or in roughly 4 years... 15 years from now, I don't think historians will look kindly on this to tell our children.
     
  18. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    No, it never was about Christianity. Same as Trump is not a real Republican, he just played both Christians and the Republican Party to get what he wanted. And like everyone else, when he's gotten what he wants, he'll GLADLY throw them all under the bus and run off laughing.
     
  19. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    Did you really have to say that??!!

    I dread with every fiber of my being if Trump cheats his way into another 4 years and gets to totally destroy our entire democracy to set himself up as dictator.
     
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  20. Ancient Soul

    Ancient Soul The Spiritual Universe

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    This topic got me so worked up I forgot to mention what a nice song that is.
     
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