Humility Is Not a Virtue

[Cary Cook]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
NotHumbleGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, NotHumbleGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, NotHumbleGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give NotHumbleGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

 

[idav]

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
ArrogantGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

An arrogant guy thinks their self worth is more than reality so would ask for more than deserved. A humble person would ask for less than they deserve due more to lower view of self worth.

 

[Curious George]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
ArrogantGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, ArrogantGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, ArrogantGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give ArrogantGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

I do not think your arrogant guy is acting arrogantly. That is not exactly genuine?

What definition of arrogant are you using?

 

[Nakosis]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
ArrogantGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, ArrogantGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, ArrogantGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give ArrogantGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

"HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly."

That's the way you think humility works. Fascinating.

Seems like a false sense of humility to me. Generally I'd see the humble person not asking for anything.

I suppose it may work out that way because the guy who humbly accepts his guilt acknowledges he did something wrong. Arrogant guy needs more convincing so ends up with a more severe sentence.

 

[Cary Cook]

"HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly."

That's the way you think humility works. Fascinating.

Seems like a false sense of humility to me. Generally I'd see the humble person not asking for anything.

I suppose it may work out that way because the guy who humbly accepts his guilt acknowledges he did something wrong. Arrogant guy needs more convincing so ends up with a more severe sentence.

The scenario made no assumptions about guilt. You can add guilt if you want, but then ArrogantGuy apparently wants punishment.

 

[SomeRandom]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
ArrogantGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, ArrogantGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, ArrogantGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give ArrogantGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

I doubt an arrogant guy would give the judge the time of day. That's sort of how arrogance works. He'd probably fight the case by himself without a lawyer, overestimating his own abilities to do so and be slapped down by the verdict.
Your Humble guy sounds more like a weasel than someone acting with legitimate humility. They'd probably apologize and accept the consequences on the chin. May even get the Judge to be more lenient.

 

[Cary Cook]

I do not think your arrogant guy is acting arrogantly. That is not exactly genuine?

What definition of arrogant are you using?

Technically I agree with you. The guy I call arrogant is just a straight talking dude who wants what he deserves. But in RF, I think the Christians are going to call him arrogant. So rather than argue with them on a trivial matter, I just called him ArrogantGuy. Possibly I should have called him NotHumbleGuy.

In fact, the term arrogance does connote an unjustified sense of self worth, so I'll go back and change it. Thanks.

 

[74x12]

Technically I agree with you. The guy I call arrogant is just a straight talking dude who wants what he deserves. But in RF, I think the Christians are going to call him arrogant. So rather than argue with them on a trivial matter, I just called him ArrogantGuy. Possibly I should have called him NotHumbleGuy.

As a Christian on RF I don't think arrogant necessarily describes him. And the other guy doesn't' seem truly humble. Rather he's just using humility as a guise to get what he wants.

I think your real argument is whether or not salvation by grace is justified when it denies justice. However, no offense but you've given us a poor analogy if so.

I believe that justice was paid through Christ's atonement. And it's through Christ that anyone receives salvation by grace.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
NotHumbleGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, NotHumbleGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, NotHumbleGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give NotHumbleGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

You're mistakenly conflating what people present themselves as, with what they actually are.
False humility is a sign of arrongance.

 

[Cary Cook]

You're mistakenly conflating what people present themselves as, with what they actually are.
False humility is a sign of arrongance.

I deny the charge of conflation.
False humility may be a sign of arrogance, and it may be a sign of simple greed by a person who sees his own worth accurately, but wants better than what he deserves.

 

[Axe Elf]

Yeah, "humility" is being mis-labeled here. Asking a judge to pervert justice for one's own benefit would not typically be labeled "humble."

Therefore more appropriate terms like "narcissism," "manipulation," or "chutzpah" could be said to not be virtues, but humility is still safe.

 

[YmirGF]

Humility is not a virtue; it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.

​

To a total narcissist, perhaps.

NotHumbleGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.

Judge: Very well, sir. I was going to be lenient and give you 5 years but after your plea I will be happy to make it 10 years. Well done. For the record, I do not have to be told to do my job by someone who is appearing before me. Nice try though.

HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

Judge: Sir, I recognize that linguistic dexterity is no longer very common, but one does not ask humbly; they are humbled and showing obvious contrition. Feigning humility with words is known as being disingenuous and that is going to cost you. Your sentence is 11 years in a federal institution.

In an unjust world, NotHumbleGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, NotHumbleGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give NotHumbleGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

Armchair psychology doesn't get much cheaper than the example you have given. I would defer to @Nous on this one, but to my thinking, justice is whatever the court sees fit based on the facts of the case before them. It does not equate with what is deserved, it's based on the merits of each case.

 

[Sunstone]

In the ancient, pre-Christian world of the Greeks, learned people often followed Aristotle's notion of "humility".

Aristotle saw humility as a virtue, but he did not define "humility" like so many of us do today.

Aristotle argued that justice required a person to claim as their do no more, nor no less, than they deserved. Furthermore, an arrogant person was someone who claimed more than they deserved, and a falsely humble person was someone who claimed less than they deserved.

For Aristotle, a truly humble person was a person who claimed no more, and no less, than they deserved. That was in his view virtuous.

When the Christians came along a few centuries later, they re-defined "humility" as a virtue to mean claiming less than one deserved. Thus, to a Christian, it is virtuous to claim that you are less intelligent, less accomplished, less deserving than you really are. Aristotle would have been opposed to such a view, and he would have called it "false humility".

Just for your information.

 

[Thief]

Humility is not a virtue;
it's a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.​

Court scenario: 2 guys before a judge:
NotHumbleGuy: Judge, give me what I deserve, because that's your job.
HumbleGuy: Your honor, please give me better than I deserve, because I'm asking humbly.

In an unjust world, NotHumbleGuy loses; HumbleGuy wins.

But if both are telling the truth, NotHumbleGuy deserves what he wants; HumbleGuy doesn't.
Justice is that which is deserved.
It is just to give NotHumbleGuy what he wants; unjust to give HumbleGuy what he wants.

HumbleGuy is asking for injustice. If justice is a virtue, humility is not.

nice ploy you got going there.....

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I deny the charge of conflation.
False humility may be a sign of arrogance, and it may be a sign of simple greed by a person who sees his own worth accurately, but wants better than what he deserves.

Either way, it's not actually humility.

 

[Cary Cook]

Either way, it's not actually humility.

Got a definition for humility?

 

[Glaurung]

Got a definition for humility?

Humility on your part would be to acknowledge the premise of this thread as ill-defined and not well thought out.

Once you do that you won't need a definition.

 

[YmirGF]

Humility on your part would be to acknowledge the premise of this thread as ill-defined and not well thought out.

Once you do that you won't need a definition.

What a super fabulous response. (I might steal the gist of that some day.)

 

[Cary Cook]

For Aristotle, a truly humble person was a person who claimed no more, and no less, than they deserved. That was in his view virtuous.

When the Christians came along a few centuries later, they re-defined "humility" as a virtue to mean claiming less than one deserved. Thus, to a Christian, it is virtuous to claim that you are less intelligent, less accomplished, less deserving than you really are.

Then what Aristotle called humility, I call honesty. And what Christians call humility, I call a social ploy to facilitate solicitation.

 

[Cary Cook]

Humility on your part would be to acknowledge the premise of this thread as ill-defined and not well thought out.

Once you do that you won't need a definition.

Cute. But what you just said is meaningless unless you have a definition of humility. So the same question goes to you.