• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Humans and tails

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I was on another site this week in a discussion about tails. Tail uses include but are not limited to brushing away insects, balance, grasping, like a rudder(helping with running, balance), etc.
The argument is if a tail works for all the above, why did humans evolve to lose the tail. It would have been more helpful than harmful if humans had kept the tail, of course up until we started wearing clothes. I thought it was a descent question but couldn't quite form a suitable answer. It was asked how long was it, what was it's uses, why it was lost, etc.
Anyone here have a answer that would fit into our evolution, ape evolution of losing the tail?
Most appreciated.
I was thinking that I would enjoy a little tail right now.

It would be helpful in scratching my back or as a third hand when I am working on something.

I do not know the specific selection that lead to the loss of the tail in humans. I can only assume that it was no longer protected by selection and we lost it.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I think part of it is due to genetics.

If I understand it correctly , the loss of the tail benefits by way of development of a larger brain. Sort of a genetic trade off whereas one part of the body benefits from the loss of another.

Basically the energy that would have been used in a tail went towards the energy required to develop a more efficient brain.

It's basically called a fitness trade-off because an organism has a limited energy capacity for which one trait diminishes for the benefit of another trait.

Fitness Trade-offs
The benefits of the tail were outweighed by the benefits of other traits and the tail lost out in the competition. That does fit with the selection model.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Actually, I have 4 degrees in engineering and worked in major research centers
having been an practicing engineer for 40 years with over 25 patents. Junk DNA claims are more akin do information science and not knowing what its for is not cause to say it has no purpose.

I understand people in biology often have an ax to grind while engineers tend to have no prior investment and look at the data
From the perspective of a biologist, it would be nice if you understood what data to look at and what it meant. Looking at the data does not mean you understand it or know what to do with it.

I have patents too.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Actually, I have 4 degrees in engineering and worked in major research centers
having been an practicing engineer for 40 years with over 25 patents. Junk DNA claims are more akin do information science and not knowing what its for is not cause to say it has no purpose.

I understand people in biology often have an ax to grind while engineers tend to have no prior investment and look at the data
What is the basis for your claim? You must know that junk DNA has a function to c
More and more engineering is just done via computer.
My boyfriend told me of a mechanical engineering
grad student who could not figure out how to use
vice grips.

It is noteworthy how many engineers are creos, and
how few scientists of any sort are-

Because engineering and science are kind of opposites in
many ways.

Now you-

Of course, as so predictable rather than
bothering to figure out why I said you dont
understand the vocab you try to use, you
brag about your utterly irrelevant education.

No chance you would learn, still less admit to
any (gasp) mistake or ignorance. Predictable,
we"ve seen it before.

Not a bad example of why I point out that it
is impossible to be both intellectually honest,
and an educated creo.

BTW-
Your attempt to paint 99% of the world's scientific
community and the educated public as a whole,
as suffering from the defining deficeincy of
creos is really just contemptible.
Shortly after leaving grad school and while looking for work, I joined some older friends from my home town in the business they had started. Two of them were nuclear engineers and the third had started engineering, but left school after three years. They were very smart guys. One of them had taken up farming along with the business. He was the kind of guy that, if his tractor was not running, he would take the engine apart looking for the problem, only to find that he had run out of fuel. On the other hand, I would trust him with running a nuclear power plant given his knowledge and experience.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
From the perspective of a biologist, it would be nice if you understood what data to look at and what it meant. Looking at the data does not mean you understand it or know what to do with it.

I have patents too.

The janitor or engineer can look at the same data as
the doctor, but even whirl wont trust his readin' of a xray
before surgery.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Actually, I have 4 degrees in engineering and worked in major research centers
having been an practicing engineer for 40 years with over 25 patents. Junk DNA claims are more akin do information science and not knowing what its for is not cause to say it has no purpose.

I understand people in biology often have an ax to grind while engineers tend to have no prior investment and look at the data

So-rather than figure out why your use
of vacab is faulty-let alone admit to (gasp)
any mistake, you brag about irrelevant
degrees, and impugn the integrity of oh,
99% of the world scientific community.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
The janitor or engineer can look at the same data as
the doctor, but even whirl wont trust his readin' of a xray
before surgery.
Wells said.

Having training in biology, I would expect no one to trust my medical opinions after having viewed those x-ray photos either.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
So-rather than figure out why your use
of vacab is faulty-let alone admit to (gasp)
any mistake, you brag about irrelevant
degrees, and impugn the integrity of oh,
99% of the world scientific community.
Funny. That was the message I got too.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Many times useless vestigial organs have been claimed but the list of vestigial organs had gone down and down and is arguably none

Same with Junk DNA there are many uses discovered for much of so called Junk DNA such as error checking and correction. There appears complex functions done in so called junk DNA. A more reasonable statement is 'we don't know yet what some is for'
All these years and you still do not know what a vestigial organ is. Your strawman definition is wrong and as a result your argument fails.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I was on another site this week in a discussion about tails. Tail uses include but are not limited to brushing away insects, balance, grasping, like a rudder(helping with running, balance), etc.
The argument is if a tail works for all the above, why did humans evolve to lose the tail. It would have been more helpful than harmful if humans had kept the tail, of course up until we started wearing clothes. I thought it was a descent question but couldn't quite form a suitable answer. It was asked how long was it, what was it's uses, why it was lost, etc.
Anyone here have a answer that would fit into our evolution, ape evolution of losing the tail?
Most appreciated.

I appreciate all the answers from everyone. It seems we have several theories/hypotheses but nothing we actually have evidence for except our ancestors at on time had a tail which is what we derive from the coccyx.
We don't know much about it other than that.
 
Top