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  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    I know a lot of people love jesus (more than christians I found out on RF), least I think. I read this on a website on why this author love jesus. I want to ask: how? (Not why...not what...just how) 17 Reasons Why I Passionately Love Jesus or is How important to you? Pointless questions aren't useless to a philosopher. To each his own.

    17 Reasons I love jesus

    1. He washed my rivers of wrong
    2. He loved me first
    3. I was his joy set before him
    4. He doesn't like religion either :confused:
    5. He was there to heal my heart
    6. I trust him fully
    7. He has been my friend
    And so forth

    I know the bible supports a lot of How's and Whys. To tell you honestly, it makes me dumbfounded. Not in a serious, deep, cosmic, divine way. I just came home, at a lemon cake, and watch another movie. By the way, The Last Castle was a pretty good movie. Have the app Tubi. Free movies.

    Anyhow. I'm sure you have a list of reasons why jesus loves you. I know you have a lot of justification from scripture. But, how? How does jesus love you? Don't get me wrong. I understand how you love jesus. But jesus loves you? Is it you trust the bible so much that the words become a real person? No. Really. A real person?

    How?
     
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  2. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    I think this is an excellent and very important question that theists constantly neglect asking themselves, and/or explaining to others. I think a lot of religious theists get lost in the romance and poetry of religious ideology, like people who fall in love with being in love, rather than falling in love with their actual "beloved", and never bother to question it any further, because it feels good (or right, or safe, or whatever it is they're seeking) to them.

    I'm very curious to read any theist's answers to this question. (By the way, I am a theist, so I am not intending to attack anyone, here, for their religious beliefs.)
     
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  3. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    While I'm not someone who honors Jesus, I have quite a bit of experience developing relationships with denizens of the otherworlds. To clarify what I mean by "denizens of the otherworlds" I mean any entity that is not present with you in now-space and now-time (aka, the apparent world or what some folks just call the "real" world). Example denizens include things like your ancestors and historical figures, as well as persons regarded to be fictional. This means a figure like Jesus is a denizen of the otherworlds. It's a little bit more complicated than this, but let's run with the simple version for now.

    When you cultivate a relationship with something otherworldly, you can get the sense of their affect back in your direction. You can experience them loving you, hating you, enjoying your company, and so forth just like any relationship you might have with someone in the apparent world. Having had these experiences personally, it isn't hard for me to imagine Christians reaching out to Jesus having similar ones with that person. The specifics of what the experience look like varies. For some, much of it hinges on valuing the power of your intuition and putting it to good use. A feeling of sorts. For others, it's nearly as real and visceral as having a conversation with someone in the apparent world.

    In any case, whether or not these experiences are "real" to someone's particular standard shouldn't be the focus. Jesus, and any other denizen of the otherworlds, is as real as you let it be for yourself. Besides, regardless of label, you have these experiences and they impact you in ways that are undeniably real. The important questions to ask are things like "what kind of relationships do I want in my life?" and "are these relationships facilitating my personal development and wellbeing or hurting it?"
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    Exactly. THANK YOU for getting my point.:DFirst shot isn't always my best.
     
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    I know there are more important questions. For you, is it more from your perspective that the denzions have emotions towards you? Or do they actually have feelings towards you regardless if others recognize it or not?
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    You know. I wonder if falling in love with the idea is better than the actual person. If we brought jesus in this time period, would people still love him without the "blond hair and blue eyes".
     
    #6 Unveiled Artist, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:36 PM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 4:17 AM
  7. 1213

    1213 Active Member

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    For example, by declaring the message that can be found in the Bible.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    Was the message given to you before the bible confirmed it?
     
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  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    It's definitely from the perspective of the person in the relationship. Come to think of it, this isn't so much different than a relationship that you would have with someone in the apparent world. We listen and watch for cues that tell us what someone else is thinking about us. We learn that when this person smiles this way, they're really happy... but if they smile in this way, that's a grimace and they're stressed out. We don't usually ask the person if we are reading their emotional state correctly. We learn through experience and interacting with that person.

    In short, I don't think there's a single answer to these questions. People's experiences will be different. I've run the spectrum myself, and aim to keep an open mind about such things. I trust in my judgement, but acknowledge that I could be in error.
     
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  10. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Ok so knowing I don't support any religious ideology.

    I have a lady that comes to me in my dreams. She exists as a completely autonomous denizen of my subconscious mind I presume. She provides all of the love, comfort, care, support that could be associated with Jesus. I don't see her as real, but the feelings, the comfort, love and support is real.

    It's a "real" relationship with a denizen of my subconscious mind.:confused:

    Many of these thing I couldn't get, wouldn't expect from actual material person. The point being the feelings involved in a relationship doesn't require an actual person. It only requires the feelings.

    What do we get from an "actual" person? Feelings. The physical exists helps so we don't have to question the reality of the person. However the physical reality is not necessary for the feelings. It's not necessary for the feelings to exist. Feelings IMO is the reality of a relationship.
     
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  11. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    It's a shame how people would say this, but then decide to follow a religion that encourages abandonment and shunning of family, disregard for health of ones loved one all over a belief in exchange for something that in kind, doesn't speak or move and will do nothing whatsoever on its own accord that could be seen or be regarded as any type of interventional love.
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    It sounds like the foundation of each of your (all) experiences are simular in regards to how the other communicates with you and the language use. Just different terminology.

    Do demezions smile back in different ways just as, say, the sun shining different ways and appreciating the language of the sun? Or trees, more specifically? Some people communicate with plants. I havent looked into it though. Anything could be made religious, really.

    Can you give an example of how a demezion (sorry, Im too tired to find the spelling) would interact with someone or vis versa (either made up for context or your personal experience)?
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    images.jpg

    Hm. Nice. A lot of times I think I'm out of the loop with those experiences. I think its probably has alot to do with trust, honestly. A lot of people can trust (or fall into capture) by their feelings. I have neuro issues so I dont trust my feelings as well as many do.

    But, anyway, I know a few get their spirit-ual experiences (lack of better words) from dreams. The santera I spoke about in my OP (well, another one) said for me to start with my ancestors for experiences. I came back one day and she asked if I had any dreams. I was never religiously-minded so experience-supernatural association is a cultural influence but not something Im comfortable with.

    Feelings... Do you know which feelings to trust and how to tell the difference between one feeling over another in regards to communication? (Dont know if I phrased that right)
     
  14. Gner

    Gner Member

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    How you measure your love for Jesus is not the way that Jesus measures your love for Him.

    Therefore it is not your measurement of love that counts to Him.

    If I were to ask Jesus how much you love Him
    what do you think He would say to me?
     
  15. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Good question. I don't know that feelings are a thing to trust. They are a thing to experience. Good feelings I see as beneficial, well to a lot of things but mostly to my temperament. Bad feelings can be beneficial to. If I was more trusting with my feelings I suspect I might be a little more spiritually inclined.

    Feelings provide focus but IMO we still need to judge reality on the merits of actual evidence that is available to us. I'm saying this as someone who has been a victim of following my feelings and the disastrous results that can bring.

    So I can experience my feelings, enjoy the experience and still not go out and bet the farm based on some feeling I experienced in a dream. Some do, IMO it's generally a bad idea.

    If you asking if there is a "real" spiritual other being communicating. I don't know but I don't have evidence of it.

    In the metaphysical realm where feelings is all we have to go by I find feelings to be wrong at least as often as they are right.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    I wouldnt know. I dont know what loves means from outside of how we define it as humans. If anything, it is our view of the world.

    How do you know (or can tell, I guess) that jesus loves you?

    As for what he would say??? I wouldnt know. I personally dont understand how someone who has passed away can talk to you as if he were present. I dont know how to answer that.

    But, how do you know jesus loves you?

    What is the primary confirmation (and explanation?) of that love if you had not read the bible?
     
  17. Gner

    Gner Member

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    Where there is a will there is a way.
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My sister LuLu

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    Okay....?
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    This did not appear to be proposed as a religious debate thread, nonetheless . . .

    I consider the concept of 'I love Jesus' or 'Jesus loves me.' to alien to me and egocentric concerning the relationship between humanity and our physical existence as a Creation by the 'Source' I call God. The Manifestations of God Revealed God's attributes to humanity and the unbounded compathetic love in this relationship.

    Our relationship with the Creator is more in the form Universal Compathy (Compassion without preference, boundaries, attributes of the Divine nature given without reward in return. In return I embrace the Compathy and universal devotion to my fellow humanity and the Creation that reflects God's attributes.
     
  20. PureX

    PureX Well-Known Member

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    I think it just depends on what a person needs from the idealization he/she calls "Jesus". I, personally, do not personify the character in the story called "Jesus". I respect that such a person may have existed, but I do not fantasize about his human nature because I do not see that to be the point of his story. I see the point of his story to be to recognize the Divine Spirit within the real humans around me, and within myself. If I do so then I have no need to 'make Jesus real', because he is already real in those real humans I live among.

    My perception of "God", however, is often a personification of the great mystery; of the Divine Unknown and unknowable. And I allow myself to personify this mystery because I have difficulty trusting in it, and I need to be able to trust in it. To trust that it is ultimately benevolent, rather than indifferent, or even perhaps malicious. So I choose to relate to it as though it were an interactive 'personality' of some sort. I understand this is a mechanism of my own intellectual making, but I find that it helps me to do what I need to do. And that is to trust in the benevolence of this Divine Unknown that I believe to be the source, sustenance, and purpose of the existential reality that I am living in.
     
    #20 PureX, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:11 AM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 11:05 AM
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