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How will we know Jesus has returned.

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
It says christ will come as a thief in the night many times in the bible, but that only means that it will be unexpected. The scriptures say that those all will recognize him and those who did not believe will wish to die because they didnt recognize him before they saw his face. Revelations gives many accounts on this. All will know of his coming, it will be pretty obvious.
I disagree that all will know of his coming.
It will be something (most) people will be entirely oblivious to.

They will all likely have heard about him and be aware of him and his claims to be the Elias of the end times to prepare they way for the return of the Father and to restore His Father to His throne by way of redemption, but they will just consider him as one of the many deluded fools and shall not have eyes to perceive the glory that he comes in. They will see it, but it will be foolishness to them.

This principle is spoken of by Paul in Romans 1.
Please refer to this post here for more information.
 
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Awoon

Well-Known Member
I've been searching my bible for an indication of what Jesus will look like, and how he will talk, and where he will be when he returns. Could you help me, because I think he's in my motorhome. I know it sounds crazy, so I need someone to disprove me.


Jesus is still around. Matt.28: 20b "and lo I am with you always even untill the end of the world." The word of God. KJV

He leaves when the world ends.
 
So, who's going to shoot for the lowest common denominator?



Sounds familiar. (In the background, there is no music playing right now but there is some dude on television saying something about blessings... )

My way (G-d's way) for me, not for anyone else, for me... started early in life... uh... let's see, the day I was born... my Mother was fourteen when she gave birth to me...my picture of a dad is a grown man raping my mother... oh they were married but if that was my daughter who was followed home, while she was riding her bike...he pulled up in his car and yeah, for me, that is enough said..

G-d's way, truth and life... My way, truth and life... The way, truth and life..

Everyday I wake-up (if I fall asleep at all) is now filled with music, prophets, messengers, a heavenly body of men who also have my back...

If you take my food from me, my wardrobe and stature... what are you suppose to do...what am I suppose to do...

I heard his word... and yet, I continued on this insane way of thinking that as long as I love those placed in front of me ....there must be some reason... and there was reason and meaning in everything... I regret nothing...I remember everything... when I died, I knew on the way there that it was going to happen....in my head, all that I kept hearing was, "Do it and see what I do..." I went on anyway because I had been locked up for a minute, without any love coming from the outside and I was missing all the wrong ideas of friends, (never missing G-d because I never left G-d and G-d never left me, now that's love..) but, the world's issues and feelings were calling to my loneliness and ego...(there is so much more but I like to see who I am talking to..) Right before I died, I grabbed 'my friend' Chicago by his face and told him that I loved him... I even said it twice because at that moment I did not want him to live with the guilt of what just happened...
Then I was left on the ****** out concrete, dead... and everyone left... I died there... and came back fighting this world, in my own way and G-d is with me... the name on the ems worker's shirt brought it all together for me...


Peace be with you.

Jen
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
In my course of study over the years, I don't even have a count of the number of times I've heard that the prophecies have already been fulfilled.

The prophecies are so haphazard and wierd to think of in our everyday world, that people can and do what they want with these prophecies. I'm inclined to believe we don't know what/if Jesus really believed on this issue by looking at the NT. Many scholars also believe many of these things were add-on beliefs by early Christians suporting different schools of thought..
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
How will we know Jesus has returned.
the Cubs will win the World Series, Al Qaida will apologize for having been unjustified, and Fred Phelps will be caught in an affair with Divine.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
you wil know he is here when you see theses things happen; ''
7
“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. ''


yep them things have happend he is here
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
you wil know he is here when you see theses things happen; ''
7
“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. ''


yep them things have happend he is here
Well, gee! When haven't those things happened in the whole history of humanity???
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
history says the world went mad in the early 1900's. if that date is long before you were born then it would seam like there has always been war
 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
The anti-Christ must come before Jesus comes back. However, he is with all the faithful through the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Then please correct me and show me where in the Bible Jesus says he will come back before the anti-Christ.
Jesus returns to cast down the anti-Christ and to redeem the Father back to His throne.

Edit: I just meant to make a statement in support of your statement.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I've been searching my bible for an indication of what Jesus will look like, and how he will talk, and where he will be when he returns. Could you help me, because I think he's in my motorhome. I know it sounds crazy, so I need someone to disprove me.

if you're a discerning individual you'll recognize the sign of the times that Jesus said would be prevalent during his presence.

thats how you'll know.
 
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Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
I've been searching my bible for an indication of what Jesus will look like, and how he will talk, and where he will be when he returns. Could you help me, because I think he's in my motorhome. I know it sounds crazy, so I need someone to disprove me.


You should read Matthew 24 and then ask Bill to tell you what it means without him reading it! :sarcastic
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
While this is true, you may yet be wondering what I meant when I mentioned the Father.
As far as the end-times prophecy fulfillment goes, most people are just looking for Jesus and they are overlooking other critical aspects.
Of course the most critical aspect is the Father and His Kingdom.

Perhaps I can touch on some things that will open this up to be better understood.

There is a framework that is clearly established that the end times shall play out in accordance to. We already have an example of this happened with Christianity and the advent of Jesus as the Son of God. In the Hebrew culture Jehovah ordained spring feasts and fall feasts. Each of these feasts corresponded with the spring harvest and the fall harvest. According to the apostle Paul these holy days were a prophecy of things to come and is why he made a big deal about how Jesus fulfilled the role of the passover lamb and how the disciples of Jesus had the Pentecostal outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost after Jesus had been sacrificed. The birth of the Christian religion was a result of the spring harvest. All of the major aspects of Christianity are rooted in how it fulfilled the spring feasts and holy days.

So, what remains? We still have all of the fall feast holy days to have their manifestation or fulfillment at the national level. None of these were fulfilled by Jesus or the Christians. All of this is wide open and shall be fulfilled as a part of the end-times when the fall harvest is performed and also when the atonement is completed. When Jesus said "it is finished" he was referring to his personal role, not that nothing further would be fulfilled. Much yet remained to be accomplished and it would center upon the other Messianic advents of the personages of the Godhead/Trinity. We have the advent of the Holy Ghost and the advent of the Father remaining to understand, as well as the return of Jesus as the Son of Man.

So, rather than looking for just a simple return of Jesus alone, we actually should concern ourselves with the advents of the Holy Ghost, Son of Man and the Father. We can see the place for all 3 of these when we look at how the fall feasts can play out.

One very important aspect of the fall feasts is that it could get started but if the barley wasn't quite mature enough the whole harvest would be delayed. They would just add an extra month to the calendar for that year and the harvest would take place again in conjunction with that extra month that is tacked onto their year. So, there is actually a provision for the fall harvest to begin and appear to fail and be delayed until a 2nd push would be done to complete it. The basis for this provision allowed for the Hebrew calendar to adjust to the leap-year factor. There isn't a perfect division of lunar cycles within solar cycles so they needed to have a correction. Thus, the maturity of the barley harvest performed this calibration of their lunar calendar with the solar cycles. This way they could track annual years in sync with the solar season as well as keep their months consistent throughout.

So, now we can look at the advents of Deity in conjunction with the harvests.

The advent of the Son pertained to the spring harvest.
The advent of the Holy Ghost pertains to the 1st fall harvest that isn't mature.
The advent of the Father pertains to the 2nd fall harvest that is completed in victory.

Now, where Jesus returning as Son of Man fits in is He becomes what the scriptures refer to as God's Christ. (Rev 12:10) Not only does Jesus perform an essential part of Israel's salvation by being the "lamb of God" per the spring passover, He also performs a vital role in the playing out of the fall feasts as well.

When the Messiah/Christ comes to perform the fall harvest, this is actually the coming of the Father to establish His Kingdom, just as Jesus prophesied would happen. However, even though this is actually intending to be the advent of the Father, things do not go especially well. This advent of Messiah/Christ actually does transgress and the fall harvest fails at that time. This is where the Holy Ghost gets the appellation of "ghost". This Man ordained King and given dominion over all things transgressed and fell and needed to be redeemed. We know this individual as Adam. He was given dominion over all creation, but the creation rejected His dominion and beguiled His Bride and caused them to transgress. Thus, it became a time of trouble for everyone.

The very name Adam contains letters that have a meaning when combined to say "God the Head ordained unto death's double portion". In the grand design of things, it is actually necessary for one of the advents of the Godhead/Trinity to die on two levels in order to descend below all things. Thus, we have Adam becoming the Holy Ghost during the time of his fall and deaths. However, Adam only stays there for so long before He is redeemed from this situation. This is the role of the Son of Man. In this advent He comes as God's Christ to redeem Adam specifically and to return Him to His throne in victory. The means by which Son of Man redeems the Father is they enter into a state of spiritual union. In this way, the Son of Man and fallen Man merge and together they manifest as the advent of the Father to complete the fall harvest in victory.

If you look at the very heart of the whole Mosaic rituals, you can see in Leviticus 16 the center of a chiastic structure that points you to something very pivotal and important. This is where the Day of Atonement ritual is described. There are various aspects in it that should be paid careful attention to. For example, there are 3 animals that are offered specifically on behalf of all the people. There are two goat kids and a ram. The goat kids are unblemished. One of the kid goats is slain and the other is allowed to escape alive in the wilderness. The ram is burned. There is also mention of the 2nd goat being driven out into the wilderness by the hand of a fit man. This ritual actually gives the blueprint for the 3 advents of the Godhead/Trinity as well as God's Christ.

Advent of Son = The 1st unblemished kid goat that is slain.
Advent of Holy Ghost = The ram that is burned (burning is indicative of the 2nd death)
Advent of Son of Man = The "fit man" who is instrumental in saving as well as driving out the 2nd goat.
Advent of Father = The 2nd unblemished kid goat that escapes alive into the wilderness.

When the Father is successfully redeemed to His throne by Son of Man, He then creates a "new heavens and a new earth" just as it says in Revelation 21.

Each cycle of Creation is sired by the Father.
He stands in the beginning as the head of all Creation.
The reason I say "sired" is because I don't equate the Creation to a whole new cosmos.
I understand the Bible to pertain to a geneopolitical creation rather than a cosmic creation.
Thus, we are right on the cusp of a new Creation by way of the advent of the Father.

Add:
And, I forgot to mention, the the return of Jesus as Son of Man is after a divine advent (Holy Ghost) and before another divine advent (Father).
Son of Man also enters into union with Man and so that factors in as well.
In this way, Jesus sits upon the throne of the Father by way of attaining union with Him upon redeeming Him from being the Holy Ghost to being the Father.

Add2:
This is what Jesus bid all Christians to prepare themselves to look for and to participate in when it comes.
However, the parable of the wedding feast is how this is going to play out.
The vast majority of those bidden pull a "no show".
 
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Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
While this is true, you may yet be wondering what I meant when I mentioned the Father.
As far as the end-times prophecy fulfillment goes, most people are just looking for Jesus and they are overlooking other critical aspects.
Of course the most critical aspect is the Father and His Kingdom.

Perhaps I can touch on some things that will open this up to be better understood.

There is a framework that is clearly established that the end times shall play out in accordance to. We already have an example of this happened with Christianity and the advent of Jesus as the Son of God. In the Hebrew culture Jehovah ordained spring feasts and fall feasts. Each of these feasts corresponded with the spring harvest and the fall harvest. According to the apostle Paul these holy days were a prophecy of things to come and is why he made a big deal about how Jesus fulfilled the role of the passover lamb and how the disciples of Jesus had the Pentecostal outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost after Jesus had been sacrificed. The birth of the Christian religion was a result of the spring harvest. All of the major aspects of Christianity are rooted in how it fulfilled the spring feasts and holy days.

So, what remains? We still have all of the fall feast holy days to have their manifestation or fulfillment at the national level. None of these were fulfilled by Jesus or the Christians. All of this is wide open and shall be fulfilled as a part of the end-times when the fall harvest is performed and also when the atonement is completed. When Jesus said "it is finished" he was referring to his personal role, not that nothing further would be fulfilled. Much yet remained to be accomplished and it would center upon the other Messianic advents of the personages of the Godhead/Trinity. We have the advent of the Holy Ghost and the advent of the Father remaining to understand, as well as the return of Jesus as the Son of Man.

So, rather than looking for just a simple return of Jesus alone, we actually should concern ourselves with the advents of the Holy Ghost, Son of Man and the Father. We can see the place for all 3 of these when we look at how the fall feasts can play out.

One very important aspect of the fall feasts is that it could get started but if the barley wasn't quite mature enough the whole harvest would be delayed. They would just add an extra month to the calendar for that year and the harvest would take place again in conjunction with that extra month that is tacked onto their year. So, there is actually a provision for the fall harvest to begin and appear to fail and be delayed until a 2nd push would be done to complete it. The basis for this provision allowed for the Hebrew calendar to adjust to the leap-year factor. There isn't a perfect division of lunar cycles within solar cycles so they needed to have a correction. Thus, the maturity of the barley harvest performed this calibration of their lunar calendar with the solar cycles. This way they could track annual years in sync with the solar season as well as keep their months consistent throughout.

So, now we can look at the advents of Deity in conjunction with the harvests.

The advent of the Son pertained to the spring harvest.
The advent of the Holy Ghost pertains to the 1st fall harvest that isn't mature.
The advent of the Father pertains to the 2nd fall harvest that is completed in victory.

Now, where Jesus returning as Son of Man fits in is He becomes what the scriptures refer to as God's Christ. (Rev 12:10) Not only does Jesus perform an essential part of Israel's salvation by being the "lamb of God" per the spring passover, He also performs a vital role in the playing out of the fall feasts as well.

When the Messiah/Christ comes to perform the fall harvest, this is actually the coming of the Father to establish His Kingdom, just as Jesus prophesied would happen. However, even though this is actually intending to be the advent of the Father, things do not go especially well. This advent of Messiah/Christ actually does transgress and the fall harvest fails at that time. This is where the Holy Ghost gets the appellation of "ghost". This Man ordained King and given dominion over all things transgressed and fell and needed to be redeemed. We know this individual as Adam. He was given dominion over all creation, but the creation rejected His dominion and beguiled His Bride and caused them to transgress. Thus, it became a time of trouble for everyone.

The very name Adam contains letters that have a meaning when combined to say "God the Head ordained unto death's double portion". In the grand design of things, it is actually necessary for one of the advents of the Godhead/Trinity to die on two levels in order to descend below all things. Thus, we have Adam becoming the Holy Ghost during the time of his fall and deaths. However, Adam only stays there for so long before He is redeemed from this situation. This is the role of the Son of Man. In this advent He comes as God's Christ to redeem Adam specifically and to return Him to His throne in victory. The means by which Son of Man redeems the Father is they enter into a state of spiritual union. In this way, the Son of Man and fallen Man merge and together they manifest as the advent of the Father to complete the fall harvest in victory.

If you look at the very heart of the whole Mosaic rituals, you can see in Leviticus 16 the center of a chiastic structure that points you to something very pivotal and important. This is where the Day of Atonement ritual is described. There are various aspects in it that should be paid careful attention to. For example, there are 3 animals that are offered specifically on behalf of all the people. There are two goat kids and a ram. The goat kids are unblemished. One of the kid goats is slain and the other is allowed to escape alive in the wilderness. The ram is burned. There is also mention of the 2nd goat being driven out into the wilderness by the hand of a fit man. This ritual actually gives the blueprint for the 3 advents of the Godhead/Trinity as well as God's Christ.

Advent of Son = The 1st unblemished kid goat that is slain.
Advent of Holy Ghost = The ram that is burned (burning is indicative of the 2nd death)
Advent of Son of Man = The "fit man" who is instrumental is saving the 2nd goat.
Advent of Father = The 2nd unblemished kid goat that escapes alive into the wilderness.

When the Father is successfully redeemed to His throne by Son of Man, He then creates a "new heavens and a new earth" just as it says in Revelation 21.

Each cycle of Creation is sired by the Father.
He stands in the beginning as the head of all Creation.
The reason I say "sired" is because I don't equate the Creation to a whole new cosmos.
I understand the Bible to pertain to a geneopolitical creation rather than a cosmic creation.
Thus, we are right on the cusp of a new Creation by way of the advent of the Father.

Add:
And, I forgot to mention, the the return of Jesus as Son of Man is after a divine advent (Holy Ghost) and before another divine advent (Father).
Son of Man also enters into union with Man and so that factors in as well.
In this way, Jesus sits upon the throne of the Father by way of attaining union with Him upon redeeming Him from being the Holy Ghost to being the Father.

Thanx for the insightful info.This sounds like something I read on this website:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctrines-Christianity011.htm
 

kylixguru

Well-Known Member
Thanx for the insightful info.This sounds like something I read on this website:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/Lost-Doctrines-Christianity011.htm
I went to this site and read through some of their material and unfortunately they appear to me to have some things pretty messed up. Their take on the manifestation or fulfillment of the animals involved in the Day of Atonement rituals are wrong.

See here where they go into the fall feasts in greater detail:
The Fall Holy Days

They have the 2nd unblemished goat as being representative of Satan.

As I see it, this is the goat that obtains the victory over Satan.

Add:
They also have nothing to say about the ram that is burned and the fit man who takes the 2nd goat to the wilderness where Azazel is.
Nor does it say what happens when that 2nd goat confronts Azazel in the wilderness.
As I see it, it is at this confrontation when Azazel, who is Satan, is defeated by that 2nd goat.
The atonement is brought to completion by way of that 2nd goat pouring out God's wrath upon Satan.
 
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