How Were Jews Able To Just Take The Land From Palestinians ?

[Jayhawker Soule]

History is a repeated casualty in these debates. People would do well to step back and seek to understand the politics and demography of Palestine following WWI.

 

[roli]

History is a repeated casualty in these debates. People would do well to step back and seek to understand the politics and demography of Palestine following WWI.

It would do you well to go back to the histroy of the land prior to WW1, but it seems you would'nt dare to go back to the story of Abraham as a starting point.
It certainly is not what it is now or what the tabloids declare it to be.

Please could you enlighten us with your superior knowledge and research on the origin of the Palestine nation, make sure to have full absolute facts of your claims ,because it will be challenged.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

mmm...I'm sorry to post this while I'm supposed to be studying..

When I decided to continue this debate, that was because for the first time, we did a very very civiled debate despite how this topic was sensitive to many...michel, The Truth, maro and peace just did a great job here showing how civiled debates can occure even with the sensitivity of the topic....Those were the last two pages of the thread..

And I just hated cutting off the debate when we reached this great level of respect...

So, please guys dont repeat the whole fights again....

BTW, be sure that any fight you might think of, was done here previously in this thread

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... it seems you would'nt dare to go back to the story of Abraham as a starting point.

... make sure to have full absolute facts of your claims, because it will be challenged.

What a joke ...

 

[Francine]

The land never left, it just looks different now.

Do the Jews own the land all the way to the center of the Earth? Because right now it looks like the only way there will be a single Palestinian State that includes Gaza is if they dig a tunnel.

 

[Somkid]

I had a Palestinians professor in university and according to him a few big countries got together kicked them all out and told the Jews it was their country again. I'm sure that's not exactly how it happened (is it?) but that is one mans view.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... it looks like the only way there will be a single Palestinian State that includes Gaza is if they dig a tunnel.

There are more than a few tunnels ...

 

[Peace4all]

The U.S intervened in Vietnam
The U.S intervened in North Korea
The U.s intervened in Iraq

So my question is how does the U.S turn a blind eye to the holocaust thats happening in Palestine?
Why does the U.S supply Israel with 5 Billion dollars in foreign aid?

The Muslims have been the most understanding and hospitable to the Jewish faith since day 1. Why does this genocide continue?

 

[Popeyesays]

The U.S intervened in Vietnam
The U.S intervened in North Korea
The U.s intervened in Iraq

So my question is how does the U.S turn a blind eye to the holocaust thats happening in Palestine?
Why does the U.S supply Israel with 5 Billion dollars in foreign aid?

The Muslims have been the most understanding and hospitable to the Jewish faith since day 1. Why does this genocide continue?

Day one? Does that mean 1948?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

How were Jews able to just take the land from Palestinians?

with military force, and help from allies such as the US, and the UN.

 

[Peace4all]

Day one? Does that mean 1948?

Regards,
Scott

No since the Prophet PBUH,

Many will agree that throughout history Jews have been persecuted more than any other kind of religious group known to man. Prejudice against Jews began as early as 438, when the Code of Theodosius II of Roman Catholic Christianity as the only legal religion in the Roman Empire. Even a century later, The Justinian Code stripped Jews of any remaining rights.

Out of any world religion, Islam was the most hospitable and held the least feeling of anti-Semitism toward the Jews. The Quran insists strongly that “there shall be no coercion in matters of faith,” and commands Muslims to respect the beliefs of Jews and Christians, whom the Quran calls ahl-al-kitab, a phrase usually translated ‘People of the book’ but is more accurately rendered: ’People of an earlier revelation’. When Mohamed (PBUH) came to power in Yathrib he urged his followers to respect the Jewish faith, and made peace with the surrounding Jewish tribes.

Anti-Semitism reached at an all-new-high during the Medieval ages. During the times of the Black Death the Jews were used as scapegoats and were accused of poisoning the wells. Countless of massacres occurred and hundreds of Jewish communities were destroyed or exiled. For example, in 1348 nearly a thousand Jews were dragged out of their homes and burned alive in Strasbourg. It’s interesting to note that during these harsh times of Jewish persecution, most of the Jewish communities fled to Muslim lands. The Jew’s “Golden Age” occurred under Muslim rule during the Moors’ occupation of Spain. There the Jews flourished as great merchants, financiers, traders, artisans, and official members of the royal court. After the Reconquista, the Jews’ “Golden Age” almost immediately ended when in 1482, Ferdinand II and Isabella, declared that all Jews and Muslims in their territories should either convert to Catholicism or leave the country. Most Jews converted, but between four and eight thousand Jews who had formally converted, were burnt alive by the Inquisition in Spain based on the accusation that they were still secretly practicing Judaism.

Quite frankly, anti-Semitism is a Christian vice. Hatred of the Jews became marked in the Muslim world only after the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the subsequent loss of Arab Palestine. It is significant that the Muslims were compelled to import anti-Jewish myths from Europe, and translate into Arabic such virulently anti-Semitic texts such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, because they had no such traditions of their own. Because of this new hostility towards the Jewish people, some Muslims now quote the passages in the Quran that refer to Mohamed’s struggle with the three rebellious Jewish tribes to justify their prejudice. By taking these verses out of context, they have distorted both the message of the Quran and the attitude of the Prophet, who himself felt no such hatred of Judaism.

 

[Kungfuzed]

The following is taken from the Palestinian National Covenant:

Article 9: Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine. This it is the overall strategy, not merely a tactical phase. The Palestinian Arab people assert their absolute determination and firm resolution to continue their armed struggle and to work for an armed popular revolution for the liberation of their country and their return to it . They also assert their right to normal life in Palestine and to exercise their right to self-determination and sovereignty over it.

This is from the Hamas Charter:

Article Eight: The Slogan of the Hamas: Allah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.

Article Twelve: Hamas in Palestine, Its Views on Homeland and Nationalism: Hamas regards Nationalism (Wataniyya) as part and parcel of the religious faith. Nothing is loftier or deeper in Nationalism than waging Jihad against the enemy and confronting him when he sets foot on the land of the Muslims. And this becomes an individual duty binding on every Muslim man and woman; a woman must go out and fight the enemy even without her husband’s authorization, and a slave without his masters’ permission. This [principle] does not exist under any other regime, and it is a truth not to be questioned.

Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences: [Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad. The Islamic Resistance Movement, which is aware of the [prospective] parties to this conference, and of their past and present positions towards the problems of the Muslims, does not believe that those conferences are capable of responding to demands, or of restoring rights or doing justice to the oppressed. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the nonbelievers as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? “And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah [himself] is the Guidance. And if you should follow their desires after the knowledge which has come unto thee, then you would have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper.” Sura 2 (the Cow), verse 120 There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game. As the hadith has it: “The people of Syria are Allah’s whip on this land; He takes revenge by their intermediary from whoever he wished among his worshipers. The Hypocrites among them are forbidden from vanquishing the true believers, and they will die in anxiety and sorrow.” (Told by Tabarani, who is traceable in ascending order of traditionaries to Muhammad, and by Ahmed whose chain of transmission is incomplete. But it is bound to be a true hadith, for both story tellers are reliable. Allah knows best.)

Article Fifteen: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Obligation. When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad. We must imprint on the minds of generations of Muslims that the Palestinian problem is a religious one, to be dealt with on this premise. It includes Islamic holy sites such as the Aqsa Mosque, which is inexorably linked to the Holy Mosque as long as the Heaven and earth will exist, to the journey of the Messenger of Allah, be Allah’s peace and blessing upon him, to it, and to his ascension from it. “Dwelling one day in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. The place of the whip of one among you in Paradise is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it. [God’s] worshiper’s going and coming in the Path of Allah is better than the entire world and everything that exists in it.”

I don't mean to stir the pot any more than it already is, but from what I've read Hamas has no intentions of a peaceful resolution. Perhaps these quotes are outdated, but both sides are still committing violent acts against each other. I don't see peace happening as long as Hamas is in power. Those Palestinians who want a peaceful resolution will have to take control of their government before any real change can happen on either side.

 

[Popeyesays]

How were Jews able to just take the land from Palestinians?

with military force, and help from allies such as the US, and the UN.

In '48 they got no substantive aid from anyone--just recognition. Everything else they bought. They engineered the hijacking of a couple old Valentine II British tanks, bought a half-dozen Me-109's of Rumanian manufacture, a hand full of P-51's Spitfires and three B-17's from salvage dealers around the world and surplus small arms. At first they could not even get mortars for support weapons having to invent a hydraulic catap0ult to toss dynamite charges. They were highly inventive, and many Jewish officers from around the world went to Israel to provide a professional officer corps to train the immigrant refugees to fight like an army.

The Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians did indeed have lots of British weapons and training but they were nowhere near as good at the job of soldiering as the Israelis.

They had the talent and maintained their sovereignty in the face of much larger numbers.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

"
Out of any world religion, Islam was the most hospitable and held the least feeling of anti-Semitism toward the Jews. The Quran insists strongly that “there shall be no coercion in matters of faith,” and commands Muslims to respect the beliefs of Jews and Christians, whom the Quran calls ahl-al-kitab, a phrase usually translated ‘People of the book’ but is more accurately rendered: ’People of an earlier revelation’. When Mohamed (PBUH) came to power in Yathrib he urged his followers to respect the Jewish faith, and made peace with the surrounding Jewish tribes."

All that is absolutely true beyond any doubt whatsoever.

And from about 1875 the Ottoman authorities did whatever they could to keep Zionists out of Israel. TO make sure the Zionists were kept out they waged war against any Jews that tried to create Jewish settlements and kibbutzes.

Regards,
Scott

 

[kai]

The U.S intervened in Vietnam
The U.S intervened in North Korea
The U.s intervened in Iraq

So my question is how does the U.S turn a blind eye to the holocaust thats happening in Palestine?
Why does the U.S supply Israel with 5 Billion dollars in foreign aid?

The Muslims have been the most understanding and hospitable to the Jewish faith since day 1. Why does this genocide continue?

why do the Arab states turn a blind eye to their brothers , why wont Syria give back Damascus the capital of ottoman Palestine.

and where is the genocide the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
Israel would have to attempt the systematic extermination of all Arabs from Syria to the borders of Egypt because that is how big ottoman Palestine was
Statement by Zuheir Mohsein, Member of the Supreme Council of the PLO:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity, because it is in the interest of the Arabs to encourage a separate Palestinian identity in contrast to Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity

Trouw (Dutch newspaper) March 31, 1977
​

​

a little history instead of propaganda

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kai]

"
Out of any world religion, Islam was the most hospitable and held the least feeling of anti-Semitism toward the Jews. The Quran insists strongly that “there shall be no coercion in matters of faith,” and commands Muslims to respect the beliefs of Jews and Christians, whom the Quran calls ahl-al-kitab, a phrase usually translated ‘People of the book’ but is more accurately rendered: ’People of an earlier revelation’. When Mohamed (PBUH) came to power in Yathrib he urged his followers to respect the Jewish faith, and made peace with the surrounding Jewish tribes."

All that is absolutely true beyond any doubt whatsoever.

And from about 1875 the Ottoman authorities did whatever they could to keep Zionists out of Israel. TO make sure the Zionists were kept out they waged war against any Jews that tried to create Jewish settlements and kibbutzes.

Regards,
Scott

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks occupied Israel. The country became part of the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople appointed local governors. Public works, including the city walls, were rebuilt in Jerusalem by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. An area around Tiberias was given to Don Joseph HaNasi for a Jewish enclave. Following the expulsions from Spain, the Jewish population of Israel rose to around 25% (includes non-Ottoman citizens, excludes Bedouin) and regained its former stronghold of Eastern Galilee. That ended in 1660 when they were massacred at Safed and Jerusalem. During the reign of Dahar al Omar, Pasha of the Galilee, Jews from Ukraine began to resettle Tiberias.
History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Popeyesays]

The Turks permitted settlement formally in the 1840's with a series of Toleration Edicts. That settlement began being resisted in the 1880's. In 1918 the Zionists tried to press the British government to honor the Balfour Declaration, but they did not. The Brits became quite resistant to Jewish settlement because it offended the local Muslim authorities. This policy was rigorously enforced right up until the last British troops left Palestine in 1948. The Israeli had to defend themselves immediately. In fact the speech by Ben Gurion was interrupted by an air raid over Tel Aviv.

Regards,
Scott