How to tell you are successful magician

[Desert Snake]

Maybe? This is kind of vague. I am strictly realist though, which makes my personal practices far more difficult (though, that is not negative imo).

I didn't say it was negative, but you could have just asked me what I meant by "black magic", and if I even believe in it, or think of it in the Wicca sense, which I don't.

Anyways, that being said, yes, it's just a color. Different cultures have different taboos/superstitions on colors, so in the west it got to be associated with something negative. Pretty arbitrary and meaningless, actually

 

[1137]

While I think I understand what you mean, I'm curious where you draw the line between magic and non-magic. I took this up earlier in the thread already, but your example gives a good basis to discuss it. If someone or something affects you, do you count it as magic, or do you draw a line somewhere? What about conscious and unconscious manipulating (replace with a word of choice if needed)?

Unconscious I would not consider magic, I think magic is strictly conscious intent. In my example, I know the person in question was consciously and carefully manipulating me.

 

[Kemble]

Honestly whenever someone takes ordinary social processes and throws it under the "magic" umbrella it really sounds like they're LARPing.

 

[1137]

Let me try to explain further. I don't understand how others use the terms Lesser and Greater but I'm going to use them.

Everyone does LM. I define magic as Crowley, and even typing this post is causing change to occur in conformity with will. The difference between the average person amd magician is I recognize this as magic, no matter how insignificant an act it seems. GM is like the salesmen examples; consciously causing change in conformity with will on a grand scale. For examples; manipulation of others, changing your own perspective, bring the subjective into the objective, etc.

 

[Desert Snake]

Honestly whenever someone takes ordinary social processes and throws it under the "magic" umbrella it really sounds like they're LARPing.

Basically my criticism of the thread.

 

[Desert Snake]

Let me try to explain further. I don't understand how others use the terms Lesser and Greater but I'm going to use them.

Everyone does LM. I define magic as Crowley, and even typing this post is causing change to occur in conformity with will. The difference between the average person amd magician is I recognize this as magic, no matter how insignificant an act it seems. GM is like the salesmen examples; consciously causing change in conformity with will on a grand scale. For examples; manipulation of others, changing your own perspective, bring the subjective into the objective, etc.

Sure you can define it that way, but most people don't. Like it or not, people will judge by labels, especially on forums. May as well state right off the bat that i'm not practicing black magic............therefore saving the annoyance of explaining that LHP can simply mean non-conformity, questioning in general

 

[Infinitum]

Sure you can define it that way, but most people don't. Like it or not, people will judge by labels, especially on forums. May as well state right off the bat that i'm not practicing black magic............therefore saving the annoyance of explaining that LHP can simply mean non-conformity, questioning in general

Turning this off topic again, but what difference do you see between scepticism and/or rationalism (as philosophical standpoints) and LHP?

 

[Desert Snake]

Turning this off topic again, but what difference do you see between scepticism and/or rationalism (as philosophical standpoints) and LHP?

Not much, actually. It depends on ones perspective of rationalism, as that will vary from individual to individual. For an atheist, the difference could be nothing at all, just a label or aesthetics.

 

[Infinitum]

Not much, actually. It depends on ones perspective of rationalism, as that will vary from individual to individual. For an atheist, the difference could be nothing at all, just a label or aesthetics.

Then, it seems to me you're more of a common sceptic/rationalist than an actual practitioner of LHP. I myself view spirituality as a very important part of the Left-Hand Path, and not only any spirituality but one based on separating the Self (read soul, if you believe in one) with tools such as magic, physical and mental individualism and meditation.

 

[1137]

Then, it seems to me you're more of a common sceptic/rationalist than an actual practitioner of LHP. I myself view spirituality as a very important part of the Left-Hand Path, and not only any spirituality but one based on separating the Self (read soul, if you believe in one) with tools such as magic, physical and mental individualism and meditation.

Agreed, even as an individual who really does not believe in anything spiritual free of symbolism / external of the subjective universe.

 

[Infinitum]

Agreed, even as an individual who really does not believe in anything spiritual free of symbolism / external of the subjective universe.

It's not like all other spiritual paths are entirely realistic either . If you ask me the point doesn't have to be complete success, only pushing the limits as far as you're able to go - and I think that can be pretty far if you put a life's work into it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Then, it seems to me you're more of a common sceptic/rationalist than an actual practitioner of LHP. I myself view spirituality as a very important part of the Left-Hand Path, and not only any spirituality but one based on separating the Self (read soul, if you believe in one) with tools such as magic, physical and mental individualism and meditation.

No, i'm a rationalist but not skeptical to that extent. Skepticism is part of my nature though

 

[Desert Snake]

I think I agree. Back to the story I told I was and am a great manipulater.

You think so? Why? To what purpose do you 'manipulate'?

 

[Orias]

Another quick thought for now; I think a good way to tell you are a successful magician is when the magic of others can be easily recognized and, if the magic is against you, being able to resist it without the other magician even realizing they've been called out.

I see it more as setting a goal and being able to achieve it.

 

[Kemble]

No, i'm a rationalist but not skeptical to that extent.

Any particular reason you feel some issues should be approach with skepticism and some issues shouldn't?

 

[Desert Snake]

Any particular reason you feel some issues should be approach with skepticism and some issues shouldn't?

Sure, life-experience, and knowledge. I think in general we're all going by our own persceptions/knowledge/experience, otherwise it would contradict our idea of what we 'know'.

 

[Kemble]

Without approaching experiences or ideas critically important contexts around them can be missed. Without context experiences no matter how profound are next to useless.

 

[Desert Snake]

Without approaching experiences or ideas critically important contexts around them can be missed.

Exactly. Hence my skepticism, which is rational, at least for me

Perhaps you misunderstood me

 

[Kemble]

Exactly. Hence my skepticism, which is rational, at least for me

Perhaps you misunderstood me

Did you mean that you see some issues as not approachable with skepticism when you said, "...not skeptical to that extent"?

 

[Desert Snake]

Did you mean that you see some issues as not approachable with skepticism when you said, "...not skeptical to that extent"?

No, I approach all issues with skepticism