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Featured How to Know if You Are Saved?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    How does a Christian know they are saved? Is this a knowledge thing of a faith thing?

    @halbhh The wedding parable...

    One is invited but finds at the wedding they are not chosen

    Folks have sincerely, in their hearts accepted Jesus as their Savior. For example the Westboro Pastor had sincerely believed he had accepted Jesus. Went on to assume every thought, understanding of God came to him divinely inspired.

    Was he right or should Christians not assume their own salvation?

    Should a Christian be certain of their salvation or continue to question it?

    For example, I accept Jesus when I was seventeen. I took it on faith that everything that happened to me was God refining my spirit. The people I met, the situations I ran into were all intended towards making me worthy.

    Where going forth into life, in faith lead me was to doubt the church, doubt the leaders, question the validity of the Christian religion itself. No where was one who exemplified the standards put forth by Jesus in my mind.

    So I went seeking. What I found was a lot of ignorance, self righteousness and questions that Christianity couldn't answer.

    So for me, sincere belief lead to non-belief. Did my once sincere belief save me or was I never saved?
     
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  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I was a hopeless alcoholic for many years. I have now been sober longer than I drank. So I can certainly say that I have been saved from myself, through my faith in power greater than myself.
     
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  3. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy New Year!
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    Christian answers to this question will be contingent on their preconceived soteriology. Calvinist types are going to say you were either never saved or that you'll come back to the faith before you die. Others who believe salvation can be lost will say you may have genuinely been saved at some point, but your apostasy now damns you.
     
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  4. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Saved from what?
    Saved from ourselves? Hmm ...
    "Lead us not into temptation..." comes to mind.
    We are what we are. Don't think that's a religious thing. Not exactly sure what that is yet.
    We all do the death thing. That'll be interesting.
    Kind of looking forward to it. Soooprise! Soooprise!
     
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  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    You'd think after 2000 years of looking into it, they'd have it figured out by now. I suppose having unfalsifiable theories makes it a bit difficult.
     
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  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Saved from Hell/torture/non-existence. Given access to paradise in the afterlife. From what I recall, that's what it is about, I think.

    I tend to expect non-existence myself, which I suppose actually aligns with some Christian theology. They can sit there in Heaven and tell each other, "See, I told you so."
     
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  7. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    A person can know he is saved if he first believes the gospel and is baptized into Christ for the remission of sins and then renders the obedience of faith.
     
  8. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Well, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure not that.
     
  9. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    That's for the reason given in the parable, for which it helps to read more parables, and then the message is more clear, as laid out some in the above post.
    We hear this on that question, from Paul to converted believers (no less):
    Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

    and even for himself (!) --

    12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

    This isn't an anomaly, or a special message for only a few. It's an instance of the general rule for all of us that believe, so that we will make it. Really. Have a look at the exact wording:

    24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
    Matthew 7 ESV (best to read the full chapter to get it fully, and really take it in, realize it's for real)

    He is saying that for every last person, A-Z, that only those doing His instructions to us, in actual action, can endure the ordinary storms of life (time) and make it. What instructions? "Love one another as I have loved you." "...forgive....not seven times, but seventy seven times." , "...do good to those that mistreat you" , even "love your enemy".

    One can be helped immensely to do these by reading fully all He says (in the gospel accounts), because then you get the exact meaning more and more, as you listen carefully. And of course He tells us to pray for aid in a certain way, in chapter 6, which many of us find totally necessary, and that we must pray as He says to be able to go as He says.

    Think about that a 2nd time: how can anyone on Earth know what is in the actual real hidden thoughts and attitude of another person?

    Well, in life we can gradually learn (perhaps after 40 or more years) that we don't even know everything that is in our own heart at times.

    How much less then the hidden thoughts and heart of someone else! Even people we have known for years can and will one day surprise us. We can hear new reactions from them we didn't guess ahead of time.

    In this example, a stranger, the Westboro pastor -- we know even less than we do about people we have met. We might notice someone is failing to do some key instructions from Christ. We can observe actions.

    Are they actually doing: Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets. ?

    Or are they visibly and clearly failing to do that?

    Only those doing that more and more would be even possibly on the path Christ gave us, the one in Matthew chapter 7, to a certain "gate".
     
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  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I have a story.....God's Favored led a rebellion
    and got kicked out of heaven
    and so did one third of heaven as followers

    if the right hand position …...right beside God
    can be lost

    then there is NO such thing as a secured position

    saved? as in salvation?...……….as in salvaged?

    yeah
    the angelic will find what they can and take what they find back to God
    you would say......all the way there
    I am saved!
    I am saved!

    and that would be correct

    but that doesn't mean heaven will put up with you
     
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  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Thanks for the story. :thumbsup:
     
  12. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    See, Nakosis?
    All you have to do is ask someone who considers themselves an expert on the subject.
    Tom
     
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  13. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    A Christian can not be saved, they just assume so, as John, Paul, and Simon convinced them that Christ came to die for them; rather than it is through his knowledge that we are saved (Isaiah 52:11).

    This knowledge Yeshua taught was called "The Way", which is the same meaning as Dharma, and Dao; Paul ended it, and established Christianity instead.

    When we read all the world's religions, like the Bible, Quran, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Taoist contexts, etc; we then see that the whole picture proves we're saved, as it confirms the same message of "The Way".

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  14. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    The Way is?

    Is this something possible to express in a online post?
     
  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Way is the natural righteous path, that comes from the Source of reality.

    We know when we break the commandments, we feel it within; yet we've been taught complex religious laws, rather than steps of understanding, that we all feel.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
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  16. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Most Christians do not pretend to know whether they are "saved" or not. It certainly strikes me as a foolish and arrogant notion. However you seem to have had the misfortune to be brought up in one of those exclusivist sects that preach this idea. I can't fault your reaction against it.
     
    #16 exchemist, Dec 19, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    There’s this thing called “hope.” Hope is defined as “the assurance that God’s purposes will be fulfilled.” Since God desires that all be saved, we have the hope that we shall be saved.
     
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  18. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    What do you think salvation means?

    I have understood it means that your sins are forgiven and you are saved from the judgment that would come because of sin.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46

    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Romans 6:23

    But, when one is saved from the judgment, it would be god not to gain new judgment. That is why I believe Jesus said:

    "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
    John 8:11

    There must happen change in persons “heart” so that he becomes righteous.

    Jesus answered him, "Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God! That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don't marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born anew.'
    John 3:3-7

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
    Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

    But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    John 1:12-13

    It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
    John 6:63

    So, you can be sure that your sins are forgiven. But, to get eternal life, you must be righteous. And, if you are righteous, it comes visible in actions.

    He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
    1 John 3:7-10
     
  19. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    #19 halbhh, Dec 19, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  20. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    They no longer feel the need to be saved.
     
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