How to get to Mars

[suncowiam]

Silly presumption, but no less silly than your SF notion of the possible riches on Mars.

• Somewhat possible, but worth the effort and expense? Pretty doubtful.

• Yeah sure. Like it would be cost effective to send empty "ore cars" to Mars. Mine and fill them with ore, and then fly them back to Earth. "Let's see, you wanted a pound of ( name your ore) from Mars . . . . .Yup, that will $5,235,192.25. And no checks please.
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• And this will benefit whom? Trump? Teddy Roosevelt’s famous quote “if you build it they will come” just won't work on Mars.

• Just how much money do you think there is in the world?

• Even more ridiculous than the idea of mining Mars.

• Or maybe information regarding the origin of god. Or information regarding quantum mechanics. Or information regarding the purpose of male nipples.

Such an escaped might make sense IF there was enough money to carry it out. But there isn't. Such a grand enterprise would take trillions upon trillions of dollars, and no nation has such capital to shell out. Not the USA. Not Russia. Not even the Chinese, and particularly when there are far more pressing needs that need to be taken care of here on planet Earth. In short, such notions belong right back where they were first concocted, in magazines like Amazing Stories, Galaxy Science Fiction, and Fantastic Universe.


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You're basing everything on money and today's economy.

It's not about what money can buy today.

At some some point, money will not be able to buy these resources.

It's actually not what money can buy at all. The essence of space travel, IMO, is the continuation of mankind. One can suggest it might be too soon now, but we have to eventually address this.

 

[Quetzal]

You're basing everything on money and today's economy.

It's not about what money can buy today.

At some some point, money will not be able to buy these resources.

It's actually not what money can buy at all. The essence of space travel, IMO, is the continuation of mankind. One can suggest it might be too soon now, but we have to eventually address this.

I agree, but @Skwim has insisted the discussion revolve around money, so that is where the discussion took us.

 

[Quetzal]

Such an endeavor might make sense IF there was enough money to carry it out. But there isn't.

Oh my, yes there is. There are thousands of investors ready to open their wallets to be a part of the first manned mission to Mars.

Such a grand enterprise would take trillions upon trillions of dollars,

Can you please cite your sources for these figures? Mine disagree.

and no nation has such capital to shell out. Not the USA. Not Russia. Not even the Chinese, and particularly when there are far more pressing needs that need to be taken care of here on planet Earth.

Correct! That is why the governments are not funding this.

In short, such notions belong right back where they were first concocted, in magazines like Amazing Stories, Galaxy Science Fiction, and Fantastic Universe.

Your lack of vision is disappointing. Proof will be in the pudding soon enough.

 

[Quetzal]

You are leaving out Solar Panels.

Yes I did, thank you!

The lower gravity should make underground tunnels a lot more practical than they are here on Earth, particularly if they are able to make concrete tunnels.

I read about that idea and the primary challenge is getting the tools to dig to Mars. I would guess they are quite heavy and bulky. But, if they can make them lighter and smaller, we could be on to something!

 

[Quetzal]

Creation of a way station for the mining of asteroids

Even more ridiculous than the idea of mining Mars.

Just so you are aware, we already have an unmanned probe on it's way to mine an asteroid as we speak. It is not outside of the realm of possibility despite your opinion to the contrary. I would strongly encourage you to take some time to research some of our current missions before dismissing ideas that are already in progress.

 

[Skwim]

The essence of space travel, IMO, is the continuation of mankind. One can suggest it might be too soon now, but we have to eventually address this.

Your implication here is that humankind should go on forever. If this is true then my question is, why? What is the purpose of the continuation of mankind? After all, humans are but one of the smallest pieces of the universe.

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The gods:

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[suncowiam]

Your implication here is that humankind should go on forever. If this is true then my question is, why? What is the purpose of the continuation of mankind? After all, humans are but one of the smallest pieces of the universe.

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The gods:

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The simplest of answer to this is with a question to you. Why do you choose to live?

 

[Skwim]

Oh my, yes there is. There are thousands of investors ready to open their wallets to be a part of the first manned mission to Mars.

But we aren't talking just about the first manned mission to Mars. The thread is about more than just sending someone to Mars, which you've acknowledge by your post imagining all the benefits that could be had by colonizing the planet.

Can you please cite your sources for these figures? Mine disagree.

I don't know where you get your figures from but I get: One person $48 billion to $121 billion. X 24 people = $1 trillion,152 billion to $2 trillion, 904 billion.
source

Correct! That is why the governments are not funding this.

So who do you think is going to fork over 1 - 3 trillion dollars for the experiment, because that's all it would be?

Your lack of vision is disappointing. Proof will be in the pudding soon enough.

I call it practicability.

Just so you are aware, we already have an unmanned probe on it's way to mine an asteroid as we speak. It is not outside of the realm of possibility despite your opinion to the contrary. I would strongly encourage you to take some time to research some of our current missions before dismissing ideas that are already in progress.

To actually mine an appreciable amount of ore, or will it be just another sampling of the asteroid as was the Hayabusa Asteroid Itokawa mission?

The simplest of answer to this is with a question to you. Why do you choose to live?

I don't play that game. If you can't answer my questions, so be it.


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[Quetzal]

But we aren't talking just about the first manned mission to Mars. The thread is about more than just sending someone to Mars, which you've acknowledge by your post imagining all the benefits that could be had by colonizing the planet.

We aren't? I thought that is exactly what we are talking about. My argument is that in order for some of the more distant things to happen (asteroid mining, for example), it would be easier with a colony on Mars.

I don't know where you get your figures from but I get: One person $48 billion to $121 billion. X 24 people = $1 trillion,152 billion to $2 trillion, 904 billion.

Your source is dated by almost three years. We have made some incredible break throughs since. I also strongly encourage you watch the videos in the OP regarding the pricing model and financing. It will be expensive, of course. But I believe the benefits outweigh the cost by a wide margin.

So who do you think is going to fork over 1 - 3 trillion dollars for the experiment, because that's all it would be?

Alright, here is the deal. I am going to put this as gently as I can. You do not have a sound enough understanding of how this proposition would work. You clearly are also not aware of the emerging technologies and how they relate to the mission. I also do not seem to understand the business model of SpaceX and other companies seeking to put people on Mars. I encourage you to take some time to research some of these topics. They are fascinating. Learn about SpaceX and where they came from. Take some time to see what Elon Musks vision is. Check out Mars One, as well. Blue Origin is another company making a bid at this sort of undertaking.

I call it practicability.

If there were the case, you would see that this is possible.

To actually mine an appreciable amount of ore, or will it be just another sampling of the asteroid as was the Hayabusa Asteroid Itokawa mission?

This would be a mining sampling, but it will be the first of its kind to gather and return. Also depends on how you define appreciable.

 

[suncowiam]

Your implication here is that humankind should go on forever. If this is true then my question is, why? What is the purpose of the continuation of mankind? After all, humans are but one of the smallest pieces of the universe.

​

The gods:

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Not sure why you think I'm playing a game. It's just another form of discussion. Don't get so serious about it and imply I'm trying to troll you.

Generations before you built processes and infrastructures that correlate to your quality of life today. Not sure if you believe your quality of life is good but compared to previous generations, it is undeniably better. Advances in medicine and science made this possible. For you to declare that space travel is irrelevant, basically, is a death sentence to our future generation. You and I live in today's environment which is still forgiving and plentiful, yet you would accept people of tomorrow to endure a more hostile and less plentiful Earth to point of extinction. Don't you find that a bit hypocritical? That you choose to live. By living, you are consuming an unquantifiable amount of resources, most of which will probably never be returned.

Don't you think that is our responsibility to help future generations like previous generations helping us?

Gods? I thought you were an atheist or agnostic given your posts. I'm not going to discuss Gods in this post. If Gods actually were a factor, then we still be stuck in more trivial discussions like defining phrases from a book.

The universe is big enough for humans to travel beyond Earth.

 

[Skwim]

Not sure why you think I'm playing a game. It's just another form of discussion.

Aside from the fact that I found your question without relevance, answering questions with a question is a sophomoric ploy that mounts to poor discussion at best, and is terribly annoying. It suggests laziness and incompetence (this is just an FYI).

Generations before you built processes and infrastructures that correlate to your quality of life today. Not sure if you believe your quality of life is good but compared to previous generations, it is undeniably better. Advances in medicine and science made this possible. For you to declare that space travel is irrelevant, basically, is a death sentence to our future generation.

Don't know if you misread me, or simply don't care what I say, but I never declared or or even implied that space travel is irrelevant. In response to the OP's statement "Elon Musk explains how Space X plans to establish a permanent human presence on Mars." I said "SUPER DUPER WASTE OF MONEY AND RESOURCES." Establishing a permanent human presence on Mars is a specif form of space travel, if you will, and not the whole of it, as your unqualified "For you to declare that space travel is irrelevant" implies. Now maybe I wasn't clear as to whom I was addressing my remark, but when I don't address a post to anyone in particular it always refers to the OP. And your hyperbolic, ". . . .is a death sentence to our future generation." is more amusing than noteworthy.

You and I live in today's environment which is still forgiving and plentiful, yet you would accept people of tomorrow to endure a more hostile and less plentiful Earth to point of extinction.

Your presumptions are beginning to sound very Donald Trumpish, which isn't a compliment. And because this is the second in the same paragraph I'm not going to bother to respond.

Don't you find that a bit hypocritical?

You haven't answered either of my questions, yet you press on with your own. As I said, I don't play this game. Have a nice day.


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[Ana.J]

One more planet to waste

 

[suncowiam]

Aside from the fact that I found your question without relevance, answering questions with a question is a sophomoric ploy that mounts to poor discussion at best, and is terribly annoying. It suggests laziness and incompetence (this is just an FYI).

Don't know if you misread me, or simply don't care what I say, but I never declared or or even implied that space travel is irrelevant. In response to the OP's statement "Elon Musk explains how Space X plans to establish a permanent human presence on Mars." I said "SUPER DUPER WASTE OF MONEY AND RESOURCES." Establishing a permanent human presence on Mars is a specif form of space travel, if you will, and not the whole of it, as your unqualified "For you to declare that space travel is irrelevant" implies. Now maybe I wasn't clear as to whom I was addressing my remark, but when I don't address a post to anyone in particular it always refers to the OP. And your hyperbolic, ". . . .is a death sentence to our future generation." is more amusing than noteworthy.

Your presumptions are beginning to sound very Donald Trumpish, which isn't a compliment. And because this is the second in the same paragraph I'm not going to bother to respond.

You haven't answered either of my questions, yet you press on with your own. As I said, I don't play this game. Have a nice day.


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Fine. We can end this.

Having to answer your questions with all these guidelines and restrictions is like jumping through hoops just to get a little doggie treat. Again, wasn't a game just because it wasn't to your level or preference.

Have a good one.

 

[Quetzal]

One more planet to waste

I am a bit more optimistic.

 

[Ana.J]

I am a bit more optimistic.

Lucky you are I am just making assumptions based on reality

 

[Quetzal]

Lucky you are I am just making assumptions based on reality

Like what?

 

[Wirey]

Let's go! We need to get out there eventually, why procrastinate?

Plus, if Star Trek taught me anything, it's that we handsome Canadians named Jim get to get freaky with hot alien babes. I need me some Vesuvian vixens!

 

[Quetzal]

I sincerely hope as we move forward over the next few years that popular support continues to grow. Our current situation is very unique and I would like to tell you why. We have a company that has financial backing that is outside of public opinion. In other words, the majority of the country could be against SpaceX and they would still continue regardless. In comparison to NASA, when public support and interest started to drop, so did the funding. We have desperately needed space exploration to be outside of the reach of the government and for the first time we have it.

Another is that we have multiple companies who are competing to do the same thing. The Apollo missions are a testament as to why competition is a welcome thing. We were competing against the Soviets and we accomplished a great deal of advances and ultimately got to the Moon in a relatively short period of time.

Next, we have a very scientifically literate populace in comparison to previous generations. The ease of transferring information and learning has allowed anyone who is even remotely curious to learn about space travel. If we continue to support these fields of education, this will place more pressure on politicians to take more liberal action in the way of NASA budgets. I have always argued that if NASA had 1% of the military spending budget we would be on Mars already.

International agencies are also in the hunt in regards to space exploration. Namely the Chinese, Russians and Indian agencies. Each of these are making generous strides forward. China, for example, is in the progress of deploying a second space station for their astronauts. If they are successful, it will solidify their place in the top space agencies on Earth.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's go! We need to get out there eventually, why procrastinate?

Plus, if Star Trek taught me anything, it's that we handsome Canadians named Jim get to get freaky with hot alien babes. I need me some Vesuvian vixens!

Woo hoo!
And I already have supply of red shirts!

 

[Twilight Hue]

SUPER DUPER WASTE OF MONEY AND RESOURCES


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Not if there's gold and diamonds or summtin in them thar planets and roids......