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How to deal with criticism of religion?

I

I am a red parakeet

New Member
Hey everyone,

New guy here! I'm pretty much going to just jump into it :)

I have been on several different online forums throughout the last 6 or 7 years - at first mainly religious boards (I'm Asatru), but lately I have been hanging at atheistic and secular forums.
The main reason for this shift is an attempt to find my footing in relation to the criticism of religion that is prevalent in, but not exclusive to, western societies.

What I'm mainly thinking of when I'm talking about ”criticism of religion” is the direct criticism through various media - especially by figures such as Hitchens and Dawkins - and not so much of the general undercurrent of secularization, rationalization, individualization or differentiation (or whatever you prefer to call it).

So... How do you guys handle it when faced with criticism of religion? What kind of religious, scientific, cultural or other types of arguments do you use?

Here's a wiki article for inspiration/information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I'm fine with unbelievers not believing in a certain religion (or all of them or whatever). My main concern is less about unbelievers' logic and issues with religion and more about believers' logic and issues (or lack thereof). I've seen way too many people rely so heavily on falsehoods and pathetically bad logic that I can't let those outside my religion (or whatever) think all of us are like that. :)
 
N

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I am a red parakeet said:
Hey everyone,

New guy here! I'm pretty much going to just jump into it :)

I have been on several different online forums throughout the last 6 or 7 years - at first mainly religious boards (I'm Asatru), but lately I have been hanging at atheistic and secular forums.
The main reason for this shift is an attempt to find my footing in relation to the criticism of religion that is prevalent in, but not exclusive to, western societies.

What I'm mainly thinking of when I'm talking about ”criticism of religion” is the direct criticism through various media - especially by figures such as Hitchens and Dawkins - and not so much of the general undercurrent of secularization, rationalization, individualization or differentiation (or whatever you prefer to call it).

So... How do you guys handle it when faced with criticism of religion? What kind of religious, scientific, cultural or other types of arguments do you use?

Here's a wiki article for inspiration/information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
Click to expand...
Like your ancestors did; humour and wit, idealy.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
1137 said:
You know what I just noticed? There's literally only like three repeating names in that wiki page for sources of religious critique. That says a lot to me about anti-theistic movements.
Click to expand...
Erm, the article itself begins by naming numerous religion critics. Under the History heading alone, it references Epicurus, Titus Lucretius Carus, Machiavelli, Voltaire, Hume, Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins and Dennet. It gives a list of seventeen notable critics and a list of 241 references.

Are you serious?

Incidentally, anti-religious doesn't mean anti-theistic.
 
1137

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
ImmortalFlame said:
Erm, the article itself begins by naming numerous religion critics. Under the History heading alone, it references Epicurus, Titus Lucretius Carus, Machiavelli, Voltaire, Hume, Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins and Dennet. It gives a list of seventeen notable critics and a list of 241 references.

Are you serious?

Incidentally, anti-religious doesn't mean anti-theistic.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should learn to read past the beginning of articles? What do I know, I'm just a dumb theist!
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I am a red parakeet said:
Hey everyone,

New guy here! I'm pretty much going to just jump into it :)

I have been on several different online forums throughout the last 6 or 7 years - at first mainly religious boards (I'm Asatru), but lately I have been hanging at atheistic and secular forums.
The main reason for this shift is an attempt to find my footing in relation to the criticism of religion that is prevalent in, but not exclusive to, western societies.

What I'm mainly thinking of when I'm talking about ”criticism of religion” is the direct criticism through various media - especially by figures such as Hitchens and Dawkins - and not so much of the general undercurrent of secularization, rationalization, individualization or differentiation (or whatever you prefer to call it).

So... How do you guys handle it when faced with criticism of religion? What kind of religious, scientific, cultural or other types of arguments do you use?

Here's a wiki article for inspiration/information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
Click to expand...
First of all, you are not a red parakeet. I am a skeptic, and I don't even know for sure that parakeets come in red.

Secondly, when Hitchens and Dawkins criticize Christianity I usually am not present to listen to them but occasionally I hear news of them, and I read part of The Selfish Gene, probably the good part. They aren't experts on religions, but they are welcome to have an opinion. They're welcome to bring to light problems with ignorance about science, and I appreciate their expertise in their fields and their efforts to point out the disconnect between some religious groups and science.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Wes hál; Þórr vigi. :)

I'm very emotionally sensitive, so it can be tricky for me.

Most of the time, I can just dismiss it, since the bulk of criticisms of "religion" that I've seen are very Christocentric, tending to (mistakenly) regard all religion everywhere (or at least the vast majority of it) as basically just Christianity with a different coat of paint.

Nevermind that that's a very ethnocentric way of looking at religion.

From there, criticisms directed right at my religion typically assume things that simply aren't true, and yet still hurt for some reason (kind of similar to how it hurts when a highly beloved and treasured movie gets criticized). Since they're both not true and hurt, it can be difficult for me to respond to, sometimes. Most of the time, it's better than I just don't.

However, I'm open to valid criticisms. My religion isn't dogmatic, and so there's no threat of eternal punishment looming over me if I have to adjust how I think of things for whatever reason.
 
1137

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
This is something I've been thinking about a lot, actually. One thing I've noticed is that no matter who I'm arguing with, rarely anyone is actually open to new information. This doesn't seem dependant on labels, but seems to be a normal human problem. Of course there's always abnormal people, of which there seems to be a high concentration here! (Which is a fantastic thing.) Essentially, defending or arguing your position is useless 9/10 times. For example, never make a theistic post on the reddit religious debate forum if you want to savor the value of human thought and the internet itself!

In occultism there is the idea of "to know, to will, to dare, to keep silent." I've known, willed, and dared, but silence I've had trouble with. Perhaps this itself is a sign of necessary growth. Debates used to **** me off, along with other things like minor inconveniences. I learned how to walk away from those ones. I then learned to tell when I was wasting my time, recognize trolls, and so on. For a long time this worked, but now even arguments I can make in my sleep seem pointless to make, as we can always question them. Maybe time is a flat circle, maybe I'm a simulation, maybe my exact mythology is the one who got it right. Does it matter? The arguments matter less and less than the experience for me, and my silence increases.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I am a red parakeet said:
Hey everyone,

New guy here! I'm pretty much going to just jump into it :)

I have been on several different online forums throughout the last 6 or 7 years - at first mainly religious boards (I'm Asatru), but lately I have been hanging at atheistic and secular forums.
The main reason for this shift is an attempt to find my footing in relation to the criticism of religion that is prevalent in, but not exclusive to, western societies.

What I'm mainly thinking of when I'm talking about ”criticism of religion” is the direct criticism through various media - especially by figures such as Hitchens and Dawkins - and not so much of the general undercurrent of secularization, rationalization, individualization or differentiation (or whatever you prefer to call it).

So... How do you guys handle it when faced with criticism of religion? What kind of religious, scientific, cultural or other types of arguments do you use?

Here's a wiki article for inspiration/information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion
Click to expand...

First, why should religion get a free pass? It is acceptable to be critical of other things. If others were not proselytized to and there was no push to have it influence laws or have religious notions taught in school, there would not be much criticism, I do not think. It is when believers of any religion want others to follow along that it becomes an issue.

I have had street preachers chase me down the street trying to stuff a pamphlet into my hand and yelling at me about how I was going to burn in hell after I first said a polite "no thanks". So I turned on them out of anger at being accosted that way. Not very gentlemanly of me, but their behavior was incredibly rude.

I do think there is a difference between being frank and being a jerk. I am an atheist and I try very hard not to do the jerk thing when engaging a theist.

Edit: And all that didn't answer your question, did it? LOL. You can take it upon yourself to learn apologetics if you like to debate, however it will leave you frustrated, because there are no new arguments or evidence for a god, and all the old arguments have been rather thoroughly refuted. You can find the refutations online very easily. Unless you are a gluten for punishment, just ignore and go on. The same goes for theists who criticize atheism. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
Last edited:
Paleo

Paleo

Primitivism and chill
Ignoring is usually my response or there's the old standby method of 'kill'em with kindness'.
 
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