How to cope with insomnia?

[metis]

The best way to cope with insomnia is to sleep on it.

 

[sealchan]

May post this into the health area?

Hope you're all well rested ...

Sealchan and I "met" over in the poetry section and the subject of sleep was raised.

So awaiting Sealchan to do the following -

I was up last night and did some writing. But I have a pretty good understanding of why, on any given night, I am having difficulty sleeping and can usually change course to correct that before it becomes too much of a consistent trend. If you care to start a thread on the topic I would be glad to unload my wealth of personal experience on mastering sleep.

sealchan, Today at 6:44 AM

Any other pointers MOST welcome!

Cheers.

I can see that many people here have given much thought and/or have struggled with sleep. Most of my knowledge comes from personal experimentation. I haven't traced it back to science yet, I suspect that science has some contextual answers. But since my experience relies on knowing my diet and stress and other factors and is tuned to whatsoever makes my body tick I assume it may be hard to reconcile the two at this time. Also, although doctors are always a good resource they often miss the most practical things when one looks at ones whole bodily and mental experience.

Sleep is all about the brain's ability to naturally enter that state of less consciousness that it enters on a daily basis. Obviously it appears to require that there are no over-riding neural stimulations that interfere with that natural process. I have found that identifying the relevant causes of stimulation of the brain, even those that are not obviously conscious, is vital (but for obvious reasons tricky).

Here is a list of factors that one has to manage that impact sleep:

• Availability of energy in the body (probably blood sugar level)
• Stress
• External Sensory Input
• Internal Sensory Input (Digestion, Elimination, Pain)

In my current understanding, sleep is a cycle that has multiple layers. There is a roughly 45 minute cycle and an 1.5 hour cycle, a 3 hour cycle, a 4.5 hour cycle, etc... If you estimate when your body thinks it has started this cycle (whether you are fully unconscious or not) then you will find that if you wake up again before a full night's sleep, it will be at one of these times IF you are not awoken by some random external factor such as a noise. The body will more or less complete a sleep cycle and then commence a new sleep cycle unless one of the disturbing factors overcomes that re-descent back into sleep. So the interval of 45 minutes is a time when the sleep pattern is much more likely to be stopped. This is probably the natural way the body determines it has enough sleep as those factors which promote sleep and those factors that indicate the body is "ready" to tackle a new day work out a compromise at the end of each sleep cycle as to whether to have another or be done.

Knowing the primary cause for that complex and subtle "decision" in your brain is the key to understanding how to adjust that balance.

So, Geoff-Allen, I should ask at this point, what is your sleep experience like? Do you fall asleep but wake up too soon? Do you have trouble falling asleep but once you do you sleep well enough? Or is it some combination of the two? Also what is the longer term pattern of your sleep night after night?

 

[Cooky]

Though I wouldn't ever recommend it, cannabis has historically been used to treat insomnia.

For informational purposes only:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thesle...s-for-sleep-here-are-some-things-to-know/amp/

 

[Geoff-Allen]

I can see that many people here have given much thought and/or have struggled with sleep. Most of my knowledge comes from personal experimentation. I haven't traced it back to science yet, I suspect that science has some contextual answers. But since my experience relies on knowing my diet and stress and other factors and is tuned to whatsoever makes my body tick I assume it may be hard to reconcile the two at this time. Also, although doctors are always a good resource they often miss the most practical things when one looks at ones whole bodily and mental experience.

Sleep is all about the brain's ability to naturally enter that state of less consciousness that it enters on a daily basis. Obviously it appears to require that there are no over-riding neural stimulations that interfere with that natural process. I have found that identifying the relevant causes of stimulation of the brain, even those that are not obviously conscious, is vital (but for obvious reasons tricky).

Here is a list of factors that one has to manage that impact sleep:

• Availability of energy in the body (probably blood sugar level)
• Stress
• External Sensory Input
• Internal Sensory Input (Digestion, Elimination, Pain)

In my current understanding, sleep is a cycle that has multiple layers. There is a roughly 45 minute cycle and an 1.5 hour cycle, a 3 hour cycle, a 4.5 hour cycle, etc... If you estimate when your body thinks it has started this cycle (whether you are fully unconscious or not) then you will find that if you wake up again before a full night's sleep, it will be at one of these times IF you are not awoken by some random external factor such as a noise. The body will more or less complete a sleep cycle and then commence a new sleep cycle unless one of the disturbing factors overcomes that re-descent back into sleep. So the interval of 45 minutes is a time when the sleep pattern is much more likely to be stopped. This is probably the natural way the body determines it has enough sleep as those factors which promote sleep and those factors that indicate the body is "ready" to tackle a new day work out a compromise at the end of each sleep cycle as to whether to have another or be done.

Knowing the primary cause for that complex and subtle "decision" in your brain is the key to understanding how to adjust that balance.

So, Geoff-Allen, I should ask at this point, what is your sleep experience like? Do you fall asleep but wake up too soon? Do you have trouble falling asleep but once you do you sleep well enough? Or is it some combination of the two? Also what is the longer term pattern of your sleep night after night?

Thanks for all the contributors to this mind-boggling topic

You asked about my pattern - the pattern is that there is NO pattern. Sometimes I function quite beautifully on 2 or 3 hours of sleep. Other times I need 10 hours - lucky I am no longer working?

I don't obsess over the amount of sleep I get - I have been known to write poetry & philosophy & random thoughts at 3 or 4 am in the morning - sometimes I even play reversi for a couple of hours in the middle of the night -

Play Reversi

For those of you unfamiliar with it - it is also called Othello and it takes minutes to learn but a life-time to master ... a bit like meditation.

Other times I enjoy being awake and just meditate a bit since there is much less visual input when the room is dark.

Have I answered your questions?

Cheers!

Oh yes ... almost forgot - found this article about sleep tracker apps and wasn't even looking for anything related to sleeep. It just came up as a link when viewing another interesting page at the same site!

9 Best Sleep Tracker Apps To Help You Get Adequate Sleep

Enjoy!

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Thanks for all the contributors to this mind-boggling topic

You asked about my pattern - the pattern is that there is NO pattern. Sometimes I function quite beautifully on 2 or 3 hours of sleep. Other times I need 10 hours - lucky I am no longer working?

I don't obsess over the amount of sleep I get - I have been known to write poetry & philosophy & random thoughts at 3 or 4 am in the morning - sometimes I even play reversi for a couple of hours in the middle of the night -

Play Reversi

For those of you unfamiliar with it - it is also called Othello and it takes minutes to learn but a life-time to master ... a bit like meditation.

Other times I enjoy being awake and just meditate a bit since there is much less visual input when the room is dark.

Have I answered your questions?

Cheers!

Oh yes ... almost forgot - found this article about sleep tracker apps and wasn't even looking for anything related to sleeep. It just came up as a link when viewing another interesting page at the same site!

9 Best Sleep Tracker Apps To Help You Get Adequate Sleep

Enjoy!

I've got a fitbit charge, which seems to do a pretty good job of tracking and analyzing my sleep patterns

 

[Thief]

a note for REM

you dream every night
it is essential to your mental health

if you fail....somehow
you will be dysfunctional in just a few days

you NEED to achieve that state of rest...even if you don't remember the dream after waking up

 

[Geoff-Allen]

a note for REM

you dream every night
it is essential to your mental health

if you fail....somehow
you will be dysfunctional in just a few days

you NEED to rest that state of rest...even if you don't remember the dream after waking up

I dream very vivid dreams - seem more "real" than daily existence!

I don't watch tv and yet I had a dream recently that I was fighting with Gary Zukav & his crazy family over what to watch on the telly!

It seemed so "real" and we were almost coming to physical blows!

Gary also rarely watches the tube. At least his 1989 book said so in the Intro.That is what made the dream so "weird" but most people would probly use that word for some of their dreams.

Cheers!

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Just be still Snoopy... don't turn on your side, okay? | Snoopy | Snoopy, Snoopy love, Snoopy quotes

 

[Samana Johann]

What ever one gives, one gains and so is it that metta, goodwill, toward all being, and living a virtuous live is the medicine, not only for good seep but for avoiding sickness o any kind.

Indeed:

For one whose awareness-release through good will is cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, and well-undertaken, eleven benefits can be expected. Which eleven?

"One sleeps easily, wakes easily, dreams no evil dreams. One is dear to human beings, dear to non-human beings. The devas protect one. Neither fire, poison, nor weapons can touch one. One's mind gains concentration quickly. One's complexion is bright. One dies unconfused and — if penetrating no higher — is headed for the Brahma worlds.

"These are the eleven benefits that can be expected for one whose awareness-release through good will is cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, and well-undertaken."

Here the medicine to be "given": The Healing Power of the Precepts

 

[siti]

you still need the dark

Here is a list of factors that one has to manage that impact sleep:

• Availability of energy in the body (probably blood sugar level)
• Stress
• External Sensory Input
• Internal Sensory Input (Digestion, Elimination, Pain)

Agree with both of these.

Also, I think someone mentioned avoiding caffeine late in the day...agree with that too.

But frankly - and I know this is more feasible for some than others - I have personally found that being tired is the best way to ensure a good nights sleep...when I have spent the whole day in hard physical activity - preferably outdoors - and even better if it is in physically challenging conditions (cold, wet, difficult terrain etc.) - I never have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep. When I have spent the entire day driving a desk with barely a break to stretch the limbs and bend the joints - I feel exhausted but can't sleep a wink. I think maybe overstimulation (of the brain) is important too. We used to ban TV and encourage book reading or quiet play (like with lego or jigsaw puzzles) one hour before bed time - our kids rarely had trouble sleeping after that.

And definitely don't eat less than a couple of hours before sleeping - that's a killer - your digestive system is going full tilt and you can't sleep, then after an hour of that you can't sleep because you're worrying about not being able to sleep.

I know there's more to it than that for some, but these are my own experiences.

Counting sheep works for me sometimes too. Or try counting backwards from 1000.

And if you've tried all these and none of them worked, its probably time to wake up by then anyway

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just be still Snoopy... don't turn on your side, okay? | Snoopy | Snoopy, Snoopy love, Snoopy quotes

Maybe I'm weird, but how I sleep depends on my mood. If I'm feeling fine I sleep in my back. Anxious and I sleep on my side, either entirely on my side (painful for my shoulder) or curled up, moreso the worse it gets. When I'm depressed I sleep on my stomach. And how I fall asleep won't necessarily be how I wake up.

 

[sealchan]

Thanks for all the contributors to this mind-boggling topic

You asked about my pattern - the pattern is that there is NO pattern. Sometimes I function quite beautifully on 2 or 3 hours of sleep. Other times I need 10 hours - lucky I am no longer working?

I don't obsess over the amount of sleep I get - I have been known to write poetry & philosophy & random thoughts at 3 or 4 am in the morning - sometimes I even play reversi for a couple of hours in the middle of the night -

Play Reversi

For those of you unfamiliar with it - it is also called Othello and it takes minutes to learn but a life-time to master ... a bit like meditation.

Other times I enjoy being awake and just meditate a bit since there is much less visual input when the room is dark.

Have I answered your questions?

Cheers!

Oh yes ... almost forgot - found this article about sleep tracker apps and wasn't even looking for anything related to sleeep. It just came up as a link when viewing another interesting page at the same site!

9 Best Sleep Tracker Apps To Help You Get Adequate Sleep

Enjoy!

What would you like your sleep pattern to be like?

 

[sealchan]

Agree with both of these.

Also, I think someone mentioned avoiding caffeine late in the day...agree with that too.

But frankly - and I know this is more feasible for some than others - I have personally found that being tired is the best way to ensure a good nights sleep...when I have spent the whole day in hard physical activity - preferably outdoors - and even better if it is in physically challenging conditions (cold, wet, difficult terrain etc.) - I never have trouble going to sleep and staying asleep. When I have spent the entire day driving a desk with barely a break to stretch the limbs and bend the joints - I feel exhausted but can't sleep a wink. I think maybe overstimulation (of the brain) is important too. We used to ban TV and encourage book reading or quiet play (like with lego or jigsaw puzzles) one hour before bed time - our kids rarely had trouble sleeping after that.

And definitely don't eat less than a couple of hours before sleeping - that's a killer - your digestive system is going full tilt and you can't sleep, then after an hour of that you can't sleep because you're worrying about not being able to sleep.

I know there's more to it than that for some, but these are my own experiences.

Counting sheep works for me sometimes too. Or try counting backwards from 1000.

And if you've tried all these and none of them worked, its probably time to wake up by then anyway

Yes caffeine and certain herbs like ginseng keep my consciousness on even when it is supposed to be turning off.

 

[ChristineM]

I usually sleep very well, 5 hours a night totally out of it, i dont even remember dreaming.

But i have a spell of around 4 or 5 days every few months where sleep is a longing. I tried all sorts of remedies from cocoa (gives me a migraine) to melatonin (also a migraine producer) and prescription sleeping pills (leave me feeling groggy the next day).

What sometimes works (unfortunately not always) is either a stiff cognac or over the counter sleep aids such as nytol.

 

[Geoff-Allen]

What would you like your sleep pattern to be like?

Good question - I am not stressing too much but more regularity might be a change for the better?

It's nearly winter here in Oz so I don't see myself leaping out of bed to write or play on the computer in the middle of a cold night. This morning was sunny but chilly - took me ages to warm up and now I am sweating - never satisfied!

Any more pointers - I am all ears.

Here's somethin on the topic of sleep from way-out-of-left-field -

What we would want you to know is that sleep patterns are going to be very different. You might find yourself sleeping many more hours than usual and having to take naps during the day, then needing very little sleep at all and having an abundance of energy.


https://in5d.com/ascension-symptoms-sleep-and-dreams/

Pleasant dreams everyone!

 

[sealchan]

Good question - I am not stressing too much but more regularity might be a change for the better?

It's nearly winter here in Oz so I don't see myself leaping out of bed to write or play on the computer in the middle of a cold night. This morning was sunny but chilly - took me ages to warm up and now I am sweating - never satisfied!

Any more pointers - I am all ears.

Here's somethin on the topic of sleep from way-out-of-left-field -

What we would want you to know is that sleep patterns are going to be very different. You might find yourself sleeping many more hours than usual and having to take naps during the day, then needing very little sleep at all and having an abundance of energy.


https://in5d.com/ascension-symptoms-sleep-and-dreams/

Pleasant dreams everyone!

You seem like you are easy going and willing to take life as it comes at you...I just moved from a log cabin home where I enjoyed burying myself under covers at night and restarting the wood stove in the morning...

Well it is hard to know where to start...and the trick, for me, when dealing with diet or sleep is to find a change that a person can appreciate and live with. Also which one is applicable that would give you the most return as far as moving toward a more consistent sleep pattern is not something I can guess at.

Is there anything in your personal experience that you know in advance is going to impact for better or worse your sleep for that night?

 

[Geoff-Allen]

You seem like you are easy going and willing to take life as it comes at you...I just moved from a log cabin home where I enjoyed burying myself under covers at night and restarting the wood stove in the morning...

Well it is hard to know where to start...and the trick, for me, when dealing with diet or sleep is to find a change that a person can appreciate and live with. Also which one is applicable that would give you the most return as far as moving toward a more consistent sleep pattern is not something I can guess at.

Is there anything in your personal experience that you know in advance is going to impact for better or worse your sleep for that night?

Thanks for sharing.

I am a LOT more easy-going than I was in younger days!

Mellowed-out as they say ...

I slept great blast night so maybe this thread is already working?

I know if something stressful is on my mind it definitely affect sleep - so I do my best not to obsess or worry over things I can't control. It's a learning process.

Where is your cabin?

Cheers!

 

[Lyndon]

Marijuana is not effective for sleep disorder, it can cause psychosis