How to change your moral character when you feel no shame or guilt about something?

[janesix]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

 

[Lain]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

If you know how to act then don't worry about it I'd say. I often myself do not feel things or bad about things but I act out of knowledge of what my duties are. Feeling that something is bad is completely unnecessary to living a righteous life. Not to mention emotions are a sphere of our being that are not entirely under our control, and do not originate from us quite often, so they are useless to control and often best ignored. That's my take on it anyway.

Your moral character is not how you feel about something but instead what habits and dispositions you have in your actions. Bad people habitually do bad and are disposed to bad, those who restrain themselves are disposed to bad but do good, and those who are good are disposed to good and habitually do it, by repetition and training like a dog. Changing the character is just about objectively going from one to the other.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

People are predisposed by genetics and such.

Dosent nessessarily make one a monster.

Maybe go a more logical and analytical route than an emotional one to make proper choices that don't come back in a negative way.

 

[sun rise]

I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

If you can avoid action, that's the main thing. Avoiding putting lower desires into action is hard and even impossible for some.

Saint Francis of Assisi was no saint when he was young. Tibet's "greatest yogi", Milarepa, reportedly used dark powers for revenge before repenting of his deeds and changing his life.

So personally I'm thrilled when some low desire is expressed in dreams rather than when awake.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Some people are unable to feel remorse or guilt for the most horrific crimes or acts. These people are called psychopaths, and there is no cure or treatment. At the moment. Since psychopathy is a personality disorder arising from brain architecture differences.

 

[PureX]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

"Feelings aren't facts", as they say in recovery circles. Life is not always about how or what we feel. We should have developed, as adult human beings, some ethical imperatives that are more important to us than what we are feeling (or not feeling) at any given time. If you have not done so, and find that empathy is difficult for you, I would suggest that doing so should be especially important for you. (And for the rest of us as you may be sociopathic to some degree.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

It really depends on what it is. Society wants us to feel bad and ashamed over things it claims is immoral, but it can't say why. Often times these "immoral acts" effect the lives of no one else. Why should you feel guilty over something that isn't harming another? But if you kill with no remorse that is very alarming.
So it just depends.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some people are unable to feel remorse or guilt for the most horrific crimes or acts. These people are called psychopaths, and there is no cure or treatment. At the moment. Since psychopathy is a personality disorder arising from brain architecture differences.

Psychopathy isn't a diagnosis. There is no psychopathy personality disorder.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Psychopathy isn't a diagnosis. There is no psychopathy personality disorder.

So psychopathy doesn't exist. Good for you.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There is a particular flaw about myself that I am having trouble changing. I understand the flaw technically, I understand why it is "bad" and immoral", yet when I attempt to dive deeply into it, create scenarios in my mind , walk in the shoes of others etc, I just ultimately don't FEEL bad about this flaw. It isn't a huge one, more of a medium sized one. I know I can control my waking behavior, that is easy. But I dream about it occasionally and don't feel guilty for doing it.

Not sure how I can change this about myself, any advice?

That is too difficult to answer. First I don't know you. I don't know if you are asking how to change your personality or what. I'll take a blind stab at an answer and hope for the best:

If you can't feel bad about something bad, then try feeling good about not doing something bad. Perhaps you are so hard on yourself all the time that you are losing your ability to respond to shame? Humans have to live somewhere in between. We can't always be proud or always be ashamed. Whatever you experience constantly becomes average, and your brain adjusts to see it as the average. There are exceptions, but mostly you have to live in the in between space. Loving yourself is as important as being ashamed of bad things.

Its true that there could be something fundamentally wrong with a person that makes them unable to sympathize. That can happen. Sometimes, though, a person has trouble seeing themselves or being aware of themselves. There can be various reasons that sympathy doesn't engage or that shame doesn't. Or there could be reasons why self improvement fails to excite.

 

[VoidCat]

Some people are unable to feel remorse or guilt for the most horrific crimes or acts. These people are called psychopaths, and there is no cure or treatment. At the moment. Since psychopathy is a personality disorder arising from brain architecture differences.

I think you mean antisocial personality disorder
And there are now some treatments for it.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

I think you mean antisocial personality disorder
And there are now some treatments for it.

Go on. These treatments. I am all ears.
Semantics aside...

 

[VoidCat]

Go on. These treatments. I am all ears.
Semantics aside...

They aren't cures. But they can make life more manageable. Like CBT therapy. And there is no set treatment that works for everyone. From:
Antisocial Personality Disorder: Causes, Symptoms & Treatment
Are there medications for antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)?
Medication generally only helps people with aggression, depression or erratic moods alongside ASPD. Your healthcare provider may recommend:

• Antidepressants, which can regulate serotonin levels in your brain. Examples include sertraline and fluoxetine.
• Antipsychotics, which can control violent behavior or aggression. Examples include risperidone and quetiapine.
• Mood stabilizers, which help manage severe changes in mood or behavior. Examples include lithium and carbamazepine.

How can psychotherapy help antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)?
Cognitive behavioral therapy is a type of counseling that focuses on changing a person’s thinking and behavior. Therapy for ASPD may help people think about how their behavior affects others. Someone with ASPD may benefit from individual therapy, group therapy or family therapy.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

They aren't cures. But they can make life more manageable. Like CBT therapy, and some medications. And there is no set treatment that works for everyone. From:
Antisocial Personality Disorder: Causes, Symptoms & Treatment
Are there medications for antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)?
Medication generally only helps people with aggression, depression or erratic moods alongside ASPD. Your healthcare provider may recommend:

• Antidepressants, which can regulate serotonin levels in your brain. Examples include sertraline and fluoxetine.
• Antipsychotics, which can control violent behavior or aggression. Examples include risperidone and quetiapine.
• Mood stabilizers, which help manage severe changes in mood or behavior. Examples include lithium and carbamazepine.

How can psychotherapy help antisocial personality disorder (ASPD)?
Cognitive behavioral therapy is a type of counseling that focuses on changing a person’s thinking and behavior. Therapy for ASPD may help people think about how their behavior affects others. Someone with ASPD may benefit from individual therapy, group therapy or family therapy.

Yes but they are not treatments in the conventional medical sense. They're essentially methods of condition management. Helpful certainly. Of course.

 

[VoidCat]

Yes but they are not treatments in the conventional medical sense. They're essentially methods of condition management. Helpful certainly. Of course.

Yet they are still treatments. Just cuz it doesnt cure doesn't mean it can't help significantly. As you pointed out

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Yet they are still treatments. Just cuz it doesnt cure doesn't mean it can't help significantly. As you pointed out

Fine. They're treatments.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes but they are not treatments in the conventional medical sense. They're essentially methods of condition management. Helpful certainly. Of course.

Why aren't they treatments?

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Why aren't they treatments?

Well. I had always assumed a treatment is a method of resolving the medical issue. For example one treats coeliac disease by refraining from consuming gluten, one treats a bacterial infection, with penicillin. It's probably just my perception that is skewed. In my mind anti psychotics and what not may help alleviate some of the manifestations of psychopathic behaviour. However not all psychopathic people are violent or require anti psychotics and there is no actual treatment for lacking the capacity for empathy and remorse. Yes maybe there are cognitive behavioural therapies that might apply to some psychopaths. I would view those as societal expectations and how to live up to them, taught to psychopaths. A condition management process. Not a treatment for the underlying cause.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well. I had always assumed a treatment is a method of resolving the medical issue. For example one treats coeliac disease by refraining from consuming gluten, one treats a bacterial infection, with penicillin. It's probably just my perception that is skewed. In my mind anti psychotics and what not may help alleviate some of the manifestations of psychopathic behaviour. However not all psychopathic people are violent or require anti psychotics and there is no actual treatment for lacking the capacity for empathy and remorse. Yes maybe there are cognitive behavioural therapies that might apply to some psychopaths. I would view those as societal expectations and how to live up to them, taught to psychopaths. A condition management process. Not a treatment for the underlying cause.

Avoiding gluten if one has Celiac's is condition management. It doesn't get rid of the problem, it just helps keep it from flaring up. To my best knowledge there is no treatment in the sense that penicillin treats the underlying bacteria causing the illness by helping the body cleanse itself of the infection. Celiac's, like a many digestive conditions, are managed and coped with.

 

[Azrael Antilla]

Avoiding gluten if one has Celiac's is condition management. It doesn't get rid of the problem, it just helps keep it from flaring up. To my best knowledge there is no treatment in the sense that penicillin treats the underlying bacteria causing the illness by helping the body cleanse itself of the infection. Celiac's, like a many digestive conditions, are managed and coped with.

Coeliac disease is an auto immune response to gluten particles attached to the surface of the intestinal tract. It is not a "digestive condition". It is not managed by drugs or therapies. It is entirely resolved by refraining from consuming gluten, it doesn't just flare up randomly. That is the treatment for the condition. Penicillin kills pathogens causing illness. Clearly that's also a treatment that resolves the problem. Either way. I am bored of this conversation. Call it what you will. There is no cure for psychopathic behaviour. There is no treatment to resolve the condition.