How the Gospels were written,Christianity was started

[lukethethird]

Paul writing part of Corinthians proves that the video is wrong. ....if you want to incist that Jesus never existed, you better find an other conspiracy theory

Is anyone insisting on anything, I mean, what can we know for sure? We have The Bible to settle whatever took place about 2000 years ago, how much faith can we put into that, especially for those of us that don't take The Bible stories literally?

 

[leroy]

Is anyone insisting on anything, I mean, what can we know for sure? We have The Bible to settle whatever took place about 2000 years ago, how much faith can we put into that, especially for those of us that don't take The Bible stories literally?

Just treat the documents in the new testament the same way you would treat any other ancient document.

 

[leroy]

Just treat the documents in the new testament the same way you would treat any other ancient document.

You don't have to take anything by faith

 

[lukethethird]

Just treat the documents in the new testament the same way you would treat any other ancient document.

You mean with kid gloves?

What we have are religious texts, literary works of art consisting of theology/mythology which make it difficult to make historical claims from. It doesn't mean that there can't be an historical Jesus in all of this, it's just that it's difficult to determine anything when all we have are religious texts to go on.

 

[leroy]

You mean with kid gloves?

What we have are religious texts, literary works of art consisting of theology/mythology which make it difficult to make historical claims from. It doesn't mean that there can't be an historical Jesus in all of this, it's just that it's difficult to determine anything when all we have are religious texts to go on.

There is a historical method that historians use to determine if a historical event took place.....obviously in history we don't have absolutes, all we have is degrees of certainty.

For example we know with a high degree of certainty that Jesus was crucified because;
-We have multiple independent sources that corroborate this event

-there is no compitig hypothesis on how Jesus died

-it meets the criteria of embarasment (death by crusifixtion is not the kind of death that someone would invent)

-consistent with the knowledge that we have

I agree there are things in the gospels that can't be corroborated, for example that Jesus was born from a virgen can't be proven. But we can corroborate that Jesus existed as a historical person.

 

[leroy]

There is a historical method that historians use to determine if a historical event took place.....obviously in history we don't have absolutes, all we have is degrees of certainty.

For example we know with a high degree of certainty that Jesus was crucified because;
-We have multiple independent sources that corroborate this event

-there is no compitig hypothesis on how Jesus died

-it meets the criteria of embarasment (death by crusifixtion is not the kind of death that someone would invent)

-consistent with the knowledge that we have

I agree there are things in the gospels that can't be corroborated, for example that Jesus was born from a virgen can't be proven. But we can corroborate that Jesus existed as a historical person.

Forgot to add

- early sources written within 1 or 2 generations after the event

 

[Riders]

Paul writing part of Corinthians proves that the video is wrong. ....if you want to incist that Jesus never existed, you better find an other conspiracy theory

Well i don't know that I entirely agree with the video or not. i believe Christianity is Pagan based.I think maybe parts of it are true. I went to different denominations the 7th Day adventists who claimed Constantinople changed the sabbath to Sunday because he was Pagan;

; And the United Pentecostals who believed he changed the oneness Godhead to the Trinity because he was Pagan .They also teach that most churches fall under the Trinity umbrella of the Catholic church which is basically Pagan based in origins.

So thats at least 2 different denominations of the Christian religion itself which agrees with me to a degree. That to me is enough proof in itself, there are lots of Christians including my sister and many Jewish Christian or Messianic Christian churches who do not celebrate Christmas of Easter because of this.

I think Jehovahs Witnesses also do this.

So to me if the Christian church itself claims to be partly Pagan based really the video does not matter. I think its interesting and I think its possible that it happened that way but I really don't know.

So just because Wiki says Paul wrote part of it does not mean he did, I'm not saying he wasn't partially responsible, maybe maybe not. I don't know.

But this video sheds some light on what was really going on the wars, the society its very interesting and I do think the scriptures were in part written like they said maybe.So you have not proven anything.

 

[sojourner]

Well i don't know that I entirely agree with the video or not. i believe Christianity is Pagan based.I think maybe parts of it are true. I went to different denominations the 7th Day adventists who claimed Constantinople changed the sabbath to Sunday because he was Pagan;

; And the United Pentecostals who believed he changed the oneness Godhead to the Trinity because he was Pagan .They also teach that most churches fall under the Trinity umbrella of the Catholic church which is basically Pagan based in origins.

So thats at least 2 different denominations of the Christian religion itself which agrees with me to a degree. That to me is enough proof in itself, there are lots of Christians including my sister and many Jewish Christian or Messianic Christian churches who do not celebrate Christmas of Easter because of this.

I think Jehovahs Witnesses also do this.

So to me if the Christian church itself claims to be partly Pagan based really the video does not matter. I think its interesting and I think its possible that it happened that way but I really don't know.

So just because Wiki says Paul wrote part of it does not mean he did, I'm not saying he wasn't partially responsible, maybe maybe not. I don't know.

But this video sheds some light on what was really going on the wars, the society its very interesting and I do think the scriptures were in part written like they said maybe.So you have not proven anything.

Parts of the religion were usurped from Paganism, but the the core theology is definitely not Pagan.

 

[Riders]

Parts of the religion were usurped from Paganism, but the the core theology is definitely not Pagan.

Well I admit some of it came from Messianic Jewish groups yes, some of it Helena but it does not make the story of jesus being raised from the dead true. But yes I'm sure there is some Jewish in it.

 

[lukethethird]

There is a historical method that historians use to determine if a historical event took place.....obviously in history we don't have absolutes, all we have is degrees of certainty.

For example we know with a high degree of certainty that Jesus was crucified because;
-We have multiple independent sources that corroborate this event

-there is no compitig hypothesis on how Jesus died

-it meets the criteria of embarasment (death by crusifixtion is not the kind of death that someone would invent)

-consistent with the knowledge that we have

I agree there are things in the gospels that can't be corroborated, for example that Jesus was born from a virgen can't be proven. But we can corroborate that Jesus existed as a historical person.

There we go, we're all set then, we got our high degree of certainty thanks to criteria designed for that purpose, we can now read our Bible with the warm and comforting belief that it's all true.

 

[Riders]

There we go, we're all set then, we got our high degree of certainty thanks to criteria designed for that purpose, we can now read our Bible with the warm and comforting belief that it's all true.

Well that's just not the truth. We don't have number of people who wrote and witnessed crucifixtion of jesus, according to Wiki there are not any witnesses who about Jesus except one person, and that's not one that's been proved to be reliable.Noone has written or witnessed the crucifixtion and written about it.

But sense youc laim theres a huge numer of witnesses they must have all written about it, making that claim means nothing. You need to back it up.

So lets see the list of names who live in biblical times of people who are not in the bible, no bile passages, who wrote about the crucifixtion and witnesses Jesus specifically his crucifixtion.

So lets see names and passages of their writings not from the bible but from that time. If you can not produce that then you have no proof. Making claims without backing it up absolutely means nothing.

 

[Riders]

Personally I tend to believe the video,I think its good.

 

[leroy]

So just because Wiki says Paul wrote part of it does not mean he did, I'm not saying he wasn't partially responsible, maybe maybe not. I don't know.

But this video sheds some light on what was really going on the wars, the society its very interesting and I do think the scriptures were in part written like they said maybe.So you have not proven anything.

If you don't trust wiki freely free to read some other source that you would consider reliable.

The fact that Paul wrote about Jesus before the 70s proves that the video is wrong.

Sure many (if not all) Christian denominations are loaded with pagan stuff, that has never been controversial.

 

[leroy]

There we go, we're all set then, we got our high degree of certainty thanks to criteria designed for that purpose, we can now read our Bible with the warm and comforting belief that it's all true.

Well what would you consider "ev

Well that's just not the truth. We don't have number of people who wrote and witnessed crucifixtion of jesus, according to Wiki there are not any witnesses who about Jesus except one person, and that's not one that's been proved to be reliable.Noone has written or witnessed the crucifixtion and written about it.

But sense youc laim theres a huge numer of witnesses they must have all written about it, making that claim means nothing. You need to back it up.

So lets see the list of names who live in biblical times of people who are not in the bible, no bile passages, who wrote about the crucifixtion and witnesses Jesus specifically his crucifixtion.

So lets see names and passages of their writings not from the bible but from that time. If you can not produce that then you have no proof. Making claims without backing it up absolutely means nothing.

That is raising the bar unrealistically too high .....

Challenge:
Of all the claims that your video made, pick one claim.........could you provide a single document written by a witness that validates that claim?

 

[leroy]

[QUOTE="Riders, post: but it does not make the story of jesus being raised from the dead true. [/QUOTE]
What would convince you that the story is true?

 

[lukethethird]

Personally I tend to believe the video,I think its good.

A lot of Christ myth theory is really bad, every bit as bad as historical Jesus theory.

 

[Riders]

If you don't trust wiki freely free to read some other source that you would consider reliable.

The fact that Paul wrote about Jesus before the 70s proves that the video is wrong.

Sure many (if not all) Christian denominations are loaded with pagan stuff, that has never been controversial.

Actually wiki does not say Paul wrote it technically it says the bible says Paul wrote it.

Part of a series of articles on
Paul in the Bible

Pauline literature
Authorship
v

• t

• e

Books of the
New Testament

Gospels

• Matthew
• Mark
• Luke
• John

Acts
Acts of the Apostles
Epistles
Romans
2 Corinthians
Galatians · Ephesians
Philippians · Colossians
1 Thessalonians · 2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy · 2 Timothy
Titus · Philemon
Hebrews · James
1 Peter · 2 Peter
1 John · 2 John · 3 John
Jude
Apocalypse
Revelation
New Testament manuscripts

• v
• t
• e

The First Epistle to the Corinthians (Ancient Greek: Α΄ ᾽Επιστολὴ πρὸς Κορινθίους), usually referred to simply as FirstCorinthians and often written 1 Corinthians, is one of the Pauline epistles of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The epistle says that Paul the Apostle and "Sosthenes our brother" wrote it to "the church of God which is at Corinth" 1 Cor.1:1–2although the scholarly consensus holds that Sosthenes was the amanuensis who wrote down the text of the letter at Paul's direction.[1]

Called "a masterpiece of pastoral theology",[2] it addresses various issues that had arisen in the Christian community at Corinth.

This epistle contains

 

[Riders]

A lot of Christ myth theory is really bad, every bit as bad as historical Jesus theory.

Nope Mythology is right there are many sources who say the Christian story is Myth. IMOHO. Your free to have yours, its just an opinion.

 

[lukethethird]

Nope Mythology is right there are many sources who say the Christian story is Myth. IMOHO. Your free to have yours, its just an opinion.

I didn't say that Christ Myth Theory was all bad.

 

[leroy]

Actually wiki does not say Paul wrote it technically it says the bible says Paul wrote it.

Part of a series of articles on
Paul in the Bible

Pauline literature
Authorship
v

• t

• e

Books of the
New Testament

Gospels

• Matthew
• Mark
• Luke
• John

Acts
Acts of the Apostles
Epistles
Romans
2 Corinthians
Galatians · Ephesians
Philippians · Colossians
1 Thessalonians · 2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy · 2 Timothy
Titus · Philemon
Hebrews · James
1 Peter · 2 Peter
1 John · 2 John · 3 John
Jude
Apocalypse
Revelation
New Testament manuscripts

• v
• t
• e

The First Epistle to the Corinthians (Ancient Greek: Α΄ ᾽Επιστολὴ πρὸς Κορινθίους), usually referred to simply as FirstCorinthians and often written 1 Corinthians, is one of the Pauline epistles of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The epistle says that Paul the Apostle and "Sosthenes our brother" wrote it to "the church of God which is at Corinth" 1 Cor.1:1–2although the scholarly consensus holds that Sosthenes was the amanuensis who wrote down the text of the letter at Paul's direction.[1]

Called "a masterpiece of pastoral theology",[2] it addresses various issues that had arisen in the Christian community at Corinth.

This epistle contains

Well do you admit that there is powerful evidence that shows that someone wrote about Jesus before the 70s?

Do you admit that this would disprove the idea that Jesus is a mythical character invented in the 70s?