How the Gospels were written,Christianity was started

[nPeace]

Yes the bible says the sins of your Fathers are visited on you and there is some good wisdom in the bible no doubt. Although we never knew my Grandfather he was most likely was a sex addict.

He use to take my Grandma and she use to tell me about it, he took her to wife swapping parties and claimed he as there to witness for Jesus. Although my grandmother probably was witnessing we know what my grandfather was doing, he had a bad reputation with women.

There you go.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wiki is ok, but it isn’t real reliable from a scholarly standpoint. We were not allowed to use it as an internet resource in seminary, due to its unreliability. It’s usually ok for social media like this, but when others come at you with bona fide scholars, you’ll need to step up your game.

It can be a good starting point since many of its sources are linked. For settled science it is very accurate . For cutting edge ideas I would go straight to the source.

 

[Thinking Homer]

@Riders I'm sorry to hear about some of your run-ins with the "Baptist Christians". I think firstly, as with all religions, not everybody affiliated with a particular religion lives according to the morals and ethics as prescribed in their Holy Scriptures. As St Augustine famously said, "Never judge a philosophy by its abuse." We should not derive our perception on Christianity according to what we see in other Christians, but rather in the person and works of Jesus Christ.

Going back to the original topic at hand, I am not really an expert on textual criticism, but what I can say is that if you go looking for resources with a fixed mindset of disproving Christianity you will certainly find it. It is important to keep an open mind and listen to arguments from both sides to prevent bias (also look at the person's qualifications, past history, any agendas etc). From what I know, the majority of historians do agree that Jesus was a historical figure (there is as much evidence for Jesus of Nazareth as there is for Julius Caesar). There are obviously a few skeptics, but that is to be expected when we talk about issues like this.

 

[sojourner]

While I have seen others use Wiki I use mainly the video. The video makes sense to me. To me its self explanatory but go ahead and put Seminary qoute or whatever you want up here.

The video says their was a lot of military wars going on new testament days Jews against Romans,

If you study the bible itself there does seem to be many references to Rome and Ceaser and war like behavior, the spiritual warfare it speaks about,

it does seem to paint a picture of Rome as the original creator of the new Testament. However I would like to do some studying of Rome history myself .

Then I can put up higher quality qouts.

Rome as the “original creator” of the NT isn’t supportable. Mark is Galilean, and Galilee was agrarian and politically opposed to Rome.

 

[pearl]

The OP has reversed the chronological order. Christianity was first, and a generation later the Gospels were penned.

From what I know, the majority of historians do agree that Jesus was a historical figure

The crux of the problem, there is no source on the historical Jesus outside of the Gospels. What scant sources exist pertain to what Christians believed. And there is a scholarly consensus that Jesus was a historical person.

https://ldsmag.com/article-1-4427/

Dr. Pinchas Lapide (Jewish Scholar) said: "When this frightened band of apostles suddenly could be changed overnight into a confident mission society… Then no vision or hallucination is sufficient to explain such a revolutionary transformation."
"I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as an historical event."
Pinchas Lapide, The Resurrection of Jesus: A Jewish Perspective (Fortress Press, 1988), p. 125.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread615343/pg1

These non-Christian sources are cited simply to illustrate that there now appears to be a broad consensus among Christian and non-Christian thinkers alike that, at least for discussion purposes, we need to acknowledge the difference between what is history and what is interpretation.

http://www.bobbrinsmead.com/t_New_Years_Essay_Part_2.html

 

[Subduction Zone]

Many historians will talk about a "mythical Jesus ". That does not necessarily mean they think that Jesus never existed. A good example for comparison is that of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. The fact that that is a myth does not make Abraham Lincoln himself a myth.

 

[leroy]

I can see you did now watch the film, probably dismissed it without regard.

This is fascinating. How could the church lie to us? No this is not just another Pagan Christ video.

The Gospels are full of embarrassing stuff for the church.

According to the Gospels

Jesus Had Brothers

Woman are important

Jesus was baptized

Jesus had limited knowledge

Jesus had fear

Jesus was against “high priests”

----

These are all things that the church hates, if the vatican had the ability to hide the truth from people (as consipiracionists claim) they would have had modified all those verses.

 

[Riders]

The Gospels are full of embarrassing stuff for the church.

According to the Gospels

Jesus Had Brothers

Woman are important

Jesus was baptized

Jesus had limited knowledge

Jesus had fear

Jesus was against “high priests”

----

These are all things that the church hates, if the vatican had the ability to hide the truth from people (as consipiracionists claim) they would have had modified all those verses.

I'm not sure what your getting at. But if you watched the video, you would see that they were at war with Jews at that time,they included a lot of Jewish rebel behaviors with Jesus to satisfy the Jewish Messiah sect, because they were trying tp satisfy a Jesus that they would accept.

I don't believe Jewish Messiahs bought it obviously or Jews would be saved. But that's what they were aiming at.

But then they also wanted to include a peaceful Jesus who would bow down to Roman and Greek authority to show the world that Romans were in charge. So they also had the submissive peaceful side of Jesus who got baptized, had fear and payed his taxes to Ceaser.

So it actually makes sense, and BTW Christians bought it. It worked. Christians do not see things the way you do.

They had several ideas int eh Gospels, I also see Universal thoughts in the bible, but Christians don't accept that either.

Christians do exactly what Nero wanted them to do they try to enforce Christianity to people in the USA by having conservative Christian government, conservatives do.

Christianity seems to be something my Christians like to force down my throat, it strikes me as a Government religion that we have to enforce.

A state religion, Texas is a Christian state, Christians think they are at war with non Christians, so there's an attitude that the Christian God is a war God just like the Romans were at war with everyone.

It all makes sense to me.

 

[sealchan]

That's from Wikipedia and you said I would not e able to find articles, your exact words articles to back up the video. Not only that but I also found this in Wiki and Wiki is a great source

Christianity arose in the syncretistic Hellenistic world of the first century CE, which was dominated by Roman law and Greek culture.[1] Hellenistic culture had a profound impact on the customs and practices of Jews, both in the Land of Israel and in the Diaspora. The inroads into Judaism gave rise to Hellenistic Judaism in the Jewish diaspora which sought to establish a Hebraic-Jewish religious tradition within the culture and language of Hellenism.

Hellenistic Judaism spread to Ptolemaic Egypt from the 3rd century BCE, and became a notable religio licita after the Roman conquest of Greece, Anatolia, Syria, Judea, and Egypt, until its decline in the 3rd century parallel to the rise of Gnosticism and Early Christianity.

According to Burton Mack, the Christian vision of Jesus' death for the redemption of mankind was only possible in a Hellenised milieu.[note 1] According to Price, "Once it reached Hellenistic soil, the story of Jesus attracted to itself a number of mythic motifs that were common to the syncretic religious mood of the era."[note 2]

Jewish sects[edit]
Judaism at this time was divided into antagonistic factions. The main camps were the Pharisees, Saducees, and Zealots, but also included other less influential sects, like the Essenes. The 1st century BCE and 1st century CE saw a number of charismatic religious leaders, contributing to what would become the Mishnah of Rabbinic Judaism, including Yohanan ben Zakkai and Hanina ben Dosa. The ministry of Jesus, according to the account of the Gospels, falls into this pattern of sectarian preachers or teachers with devoted disciples (students).[citation needed]

Although the gospels contain strong condemnations of the Pharisees, Paul the Apostle claims proudly to be a Pharisee, and there is a clear influence of Hillel's interpretation of the Torah in the Gospel-sayings.[2] Belief in the resurrection of the dead in the messianic age was a core Pharisaic doctrine.


Here's the 3rd paragraph again

According to Burton Mack, the Christian vision of Jesus' death for the redemption of mankind was only possible in a Hellenised milieu.[note 1] According to Price, "Once it reached Hellenistic soil, the story of Jesus attracted to itself a number of mythic motifs that were common to the syncretic religious mood of the era."[note

See resurrection came our of the Hellina greek religion and the Jesus story is a part of a number of MYTHIC motifs.

What about the deep Egyptian tradition of resurrection? It seems that perhaps the Greek might have had its own tradition or was also influenced by the Egyptian by way of one of the greatest cities of antiquity where Greeks, Egyptian and Jews mixed...Alexandria.

 

[sealchan]

I've added the video to my Watch Later list...will try to watch it soon.

 

[Riders]

What about the deep Egyptian tradition of resurrection? It seems that perhaps the Greek might have had its own tradition or was also influenced by the Egyptian by way of one of the greatest cities of antiquity where Greeks, Egyptian and Jews mixed...Alexandria.

I think that's a very very good point. The Messiah Jews who were in Egypt were Gnostic some of them and also mystical. But Egypt was full of well the sun God Horace and a few other Gods who were raised from the dead.

The Pagan Christ book believe Christianity came directly from Egypt,this is guy is saying Rome and Greece, either way its all Pagan.

 

[sealchan]

I think that's a very very good point. The Messiah Jews who were in Egypt were Gnostic some of them and also mystical. But Egypt was full of well the sun God Horace and a few other Gods who were raised from the dead.

The Pagan Christ book believe Christianity came directly from Egypt,this is guy is saying Rome and Greece, either way its all Pagan.

At about the time of Christ a whole religion based on a new God Serapis was created. It was a city (Alexandria) and a time of great innovation and discovery.

 

[lukethethird]

Many historians will talk about a "mythical Jesus ". That does not necessarily mean they think that Jesus never existed. A good example for comparison is that of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. The fact that that is a myth does not make Abraham Lincoln himself a myth.

Is that really a good example?

 

[Riders]

Is that really a good example?

ROTFLMAO I did not even see that thats hillarius Araham Lincoln Vampire Hunter yea and Uh Buffy The Vampire SLayer is real too and I know her BWAHAHAHA

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is that really a good example?

Why not?

 

[Subduction Zone]

ROTFLMAO I did not even see that thats hillarius Araham Lincoln Vampire Hunter yea and Uh Buffy The Vampire SLayer is real too and I know her BWAHAHAHA

No, there never was a "Buffy". There was an Abraham Lincoln.

 

[lukethethird]

Why not?

Where in the history books can we read about Jesus? and who were his contemporary's?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where in the history books can we read about Jesus? and who were his contemporary's?

We really can't. But as weak as the evidence is for Jesus the "over the topness" of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter balances out that weakness.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No, rather it's that credible historians of relevant expertise overwhelmingly reject mythicism. It's agenda driven quackery masquerading as scholarship.

In the past I thought a mythical figure could suit the frame, but I think now it does make more sense for there to be an actual Jesus man. It in no way makes the gospels any less epic. In them he walks on water, orders storms to stop etc. I can understand why some people feel that he seems mythical in this current society where people are trying to exorcise demons and demonizing scientists. Its so in your face and yet so complicated to learn all about. Every street has a church here, but very few people study geography, history and ancient cultures.

 

[whirlingmerc]

This is fascinating. How could the church lie to us? No this is not just another Pagan Christ video.

Gary Habermas shows the consensus of historians do believe Jesus existed, died, the tomb was empty and the apostles were convinced he rose