We Never Know
No Slack
Who believes your life is already planned, laid out, and what happens will happen because God controls it all.
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How strong is your faith
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
We Never Know
No Slack
Sounds like you're speaking of freewill.
If lightning strikes you and kills you, it has nothing to do with freewill.
So was it already planned by God or just a freak accident that God couldn't control?
74x12
Well-Known Member
I believe God makes room for time and chance to happen.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
11 I have turned so as to see under the sun, that not to the swift [is] the race, nor to the mighty the battle, nor even to the wise bread, nor even to the intelligent wealth, nor even to the skilful grace, for time and chance happen with them all.
So much of what happens to people is just things happening randomly as they will. However, trusting God is wise... so He can intervene at will. Doesn't always.
We Never Know
No Slack
Ok. So God can intervene but doesn't. Doesn't because he doesn't want to or can't?
He sometimes let's things randomly happen... like a plane crashing killing 300 people(even innocent kids) for no reason.
Is he like hmm, let's just let this happen because I'm bored?
74x12
Well-Known Member
First it could just be God's will. God takes everyone at one time or another. So people are supposed to be ready "Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.".
But assuming it's a completely random event then perhaps no one had faith and/or maybe no one prayed to stop it. Also, there could be some other reason I'm not thinking of.
We Never Know
No Slack
If we chalk it up to it's a completely random event only shows it's not controlled by an all powerful God.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
I don't know. So I can't say yes or no to: Does God control it all?
Eh, that's not how I would frame it considering my gods are all. All is a network of causes and effects, and all is of the gods. It's not really about "control" ... things simply are as they must be.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I don't see my life as planned. From a biblical perspective, free will is not a positive thing. It gives you means to turn away from god not going to him. So, I'd say for believers, it makes more sense to not have free will. If they believe god controls all, why would he make a clause that they can choose but then give them an ultimatum and consequence depending on their choice?
We Never Know
No Slack
Kind of like "you're free to choose what you want but if you don't choose me you will burn and suffer in hell".
Me or suffer.. that's not much of a choice when you try to control their choice with fear.
We Never Know
No Slack
"Things simply are as they must be"
What makes them as they must be?
John lives to 102 and little Chuck dies at 1 year of age? Why must things be that way?
I do not believe my life is planned, that my future is set in stone. Hinduism by and large doesn't teach that God controls, micromanages, or manipulates everything. I mean, he could.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Pretty much. I rather someone be direct: Follow me or else. I think that's a human thing to soften it a bit. The bible is pretty strict on which side people should be on.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Personally? I think that's the way the planet works, and we'll all die of something.
As to whether a lightning strike has NOTHING to do with free will, that depends entirely on the situation, doesn't it?
I mean, really. If you insist upon playing golf in a thunderstorm, doesn't your free will have something to do with it?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God has engineered all my scenarios based upon the decisions I make.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God controls it. I had an uncle who survived Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima and the human wave in Korea but in civilian life was struck and killed by lightning on the golf course.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe it doesn't make sense to intervene in your own plan but of course at times intervention is part of the plan.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
I've been thinking....pretty much everything comes down to free will on our part, doesn't it? that is, either we, ourselves, get the consequences of our own choices, or others 'pay' for what we choose?
I live right on top of the San Andreas fault (well, about a mile away on the "American Plate" side). An earthquake hits. Wasn't it my choice to live here, even though I know about the fault and the earthquakes that WILL happen? Millions of people live in Milan....if there is anybody on the planet who understand what Mt. Vesuvius can and has done, it's them...but they live there anyway.
Millions upon millions of people live on the seashore, in tornado alley, in the traditional path of hurricanes....really. The planet REQUIRES these things to remain capable of supporting life. So whose "fault' is it that when a natural event, required by the planet to sustain it's life giving properties, takes lives? Your life, mine, that of our children?
If you choose to get on a plane, and the pilot does something stupid (or not) and you crash and die, would you have done so had you not chosen to fly that day?
The problem with free will is that choices do have consequences, and not simply for oneself. BTW, that's why I pray, before I travel, not to 'stay safe' (what if my staying safe means that someone else dies?) but to be alert, careful and aware of everything around me so that I will make the best decisions possible.
Then there is this: If God is the creator of all things, AND there is an 'afterlife' for us after our physical deaths, then His view is considerably broader than ours can possibly be. To Him, then, our physical deaths...even the deaths of children, aren't all that big a deal. It's not, to HIM, as if we were DEAD dead, is it? We still continue, just not as physical entities on the planet. We are here for a purpose, we'll be here for a bit...and then we 'go home,' or die. All of us. Every one of us. Whether that happens because we are dumb enough to live on the slopes of Mt St Helens mid eruption, or in bed after a long productive life, we're still gone. phht.
If there IS no God, and no Creator, then wondering whether He is responsible or mean or nasty is a moot discussion, isn't it? You certainly can't prove His non-existence by pointing to lightening strikes on a golf course. My own personal belief is that we are hear to LEARN stuff. and then we die. And we do that by making choices and living with the consequences, good or bad.
That's it.
I live right on top of the San Andreas fault (well, about a mile away on the "American Plate" side). An earthquake hits. Wasn't it my choice to live here, even though I know about the fault and the earthquakes that WILL happen? Millions of people live in Milan....if there is anybody on the planet who understand what Mt. Vesuvius can and has done, it's them...but they live there anyway.
Millions upon millions of people live on the seashore, in tornado alley, in the traditional path of hurricanes....really. The planet REQUIRES these things to remain capable of supporting life. So whose "fault' is it that when a natural event, required by the planet to sustain it's life giving properties, takes lives? Your life, mine, that of our children?
If you choose to get on a plane, and the pilot does something stupid (or not) and you crash and die, would you have done so had you not chosen to fly that day?
The problem with free will is that choices do have consequences, and not simply for oneself. BTW, that's why I pray, before I travel, not to 'stay safe' (what if my staying safe means that someone else dies?) but to be alert, careful and aware of everything around me so that I will make the best decisions possible.
Then there is this: If God is the creator of all things, AND there is an 'afterlife' for us after our physical deaths, then His view is considerably broader than ours can possibly be. To Him, then, our physical deaths...even the deaths of children, aren't all that big a deal. It's not, to HIM, as if we were DEAD dead, is it? We still continue, just not as physical entities on the planet. We are here for a purpose, we'll be here for a bit...and then we 'go home,' or die. All of us. Every one of us. Whether that happens because we are dumb enough to live on the slopes of Mt St Helens mid eruption, or in bed after a long productive life, we're still gone. phht.
If there IS no God, and no Creator, then wondering whether He is responsible or mean or nasty is a moot discussion, isn't it? You certainly can't prove His non-existence by pointing to lightening strikes on a golf course. My own personal belief is that we are hear to LEARN stuff. and then we die. And we do that by making choices and living with the consequences, good or bad.
That's it.
Because humans have not yet learned how to travel between alternate realities to live in the parallel universe where John lives to 32 and Chuck is never born.
Things are what they are. They can't be anything other than what they are, in our apparent reality. We can experience different realities - the otherworlds - through story and song, but they are stories. They do not change that which is in our apparent world.