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How should we view Jesus in the Dharmic Religions?

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Buddha Dharma, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    If we should have any view of him at all, that is...

    I am sure many of us are aware of the alleged claims of this man- that he came forth from God in a very transcendental sense of that word. Some of the gnostic texts are even more cosmic in their implications about Jesus's heavenly origins.

    I am more so asking Hindus if they believe Jesus is cosmic or heavenly in any sense, because Buddhists of course have different views about the beings that descend from the heaven realms- even among ourselves.

    I am not personally sure, speaking for myself as a Buddhist- that I view him as anything more than a good man that may have encountered Ahimsa somewhere and adapted it into his culture's framework. I base that not on the gospels alone, but having knowledge that early sects like the Ebionites insisted strictly on vegetarian diet.

    I guess this seems like a good question only because of the impact the Jesus figure has had on the world stage. There is no doubting he became one of the most influential and central figures of humanity.

    I would think a Buddhist was free to conclude any number of things about him, speaking from that tradition- including that he didn't exist, or was somewhat bonkers, or what have you.
     
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  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I believe we should have no view. Outside our paradigm, and none of our business. That is my view already, but people are allowed to think whatever they want.
     
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  3. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Jesus is a New Testament character in the Holy Bible exclusive with Abrahamic religions.

    That's the Buddhist View.
     
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  4. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I don't believe he rose from the dead or the second person of any divine Trinity.
     
  5. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    The 'Jesus' of modern Christianity is the product of a myth concocted by one St. Paul. This person never existed. However, there was a real man named 'Yeshua' who was a Nazarene, of the sect of the Essenes. The Essenes did not believe in blood sacrifice, the virgin birth, nor bodily resurrection. These three doctrines were overwritten onto Yeshua's teachings by Paul and Rome as a clever device to lure tens of thousands of pagans into the new religion, since these pagans (Mithraites) already had the promise of eternal life in Mithra.* Meanwhile, most of Yeshua's teachings were destroyed.

    The Christian account is completely silent about where 'Jesus' spent some 18 years of his life in what are known as his 'missing years', from about 12 to 30 years old, when he suddenly burst upon the world. It is said that he spent those years quietly in Nazareth, but to date, there is no evidence of a 1st century Nazareth. OTOH, we have a collection of information from the East of his travels throughout India, Tibet, Persia, and China, where he was known as 'Issa', Yuz Assaf, and others, all of which translate to mean 'savior'. There allegedly are some Buddhist scrolls in the Buddhist monastery at Hemis, in Ladakh in the Himalayas which are primary evidence of Yeshua's travels in the East. The Buddhist monks there refer to Yeshua as their 'beloved St. Issa', and claim he lived and taught there during some of his 'missing years'.

    There is also an account from India that he sympathized with the lowest caste of Untouchables, and tried to free them from their bondage. The Brahmin caste, upon learning of this, plotted to have him murdered. When Yeshua found out about their intent, he fled India.

    He also reputedly spent much of his time at the Nazarene Essene monastery at Mt. Carmel, just 10 miles outside of modern-day Nazareth. This was a mystical Essene cult, a family monastery, and Yeshua, Mary, and Joseph are said to have resided there. This sect of the Essenes had contact with the Essene sect in Egypt known as The Therapeutae, who were healers, and it is from this sect that Yeshua may have gained his knowledge as a healer.**

    All of this, and more, point to Yeshua being a man of the East, and not of the West, as he is portrayed. From a Buddhist perspective, he probably would be classed as a bodhisattva.

    *The Church did much the same thing in Mexico, where they 'adopted' Tonantzin, the Aztec Goddess of Fertility, and transformed her into Our Lady of Guadalupe Hidalgo, for the express purpose of converting some 2 million Indios into Catholicism. Of course, the Indios just followed where their goddess dwelt, their culture being a matriarchal one.

    **The Essene sect at Qumran of the Dead Sea Scrolls, was an apocalyptic sect, where John the Baptist came from.
     
    #5 godnotgod, Feb 4, 2018
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  6. Terese

    Terese Mangalam Pundarikakshah
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    I see him as an enlightened and peaceful man. A role model for many spiritual Christians.
     
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  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    How should we view Jesus in the Dharmic Religions?

    Each to their own view. I personally believe Jesus to be a highly advanced soul born into the Jewish culture of His time who presented His teachings in a way people of his time and culture could understand. I have a positive view of Jesus.
     
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  8. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Jesus had a lot of good things to say, so did the Buddha, I think the idea that either one of them is perfect and all knowing is overrated.
     
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  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Ultimately, views about Jesus are unavoidably personal. Even, IMO, among Christians.

    There is nowhere near a coherent view of what he taught. There is not even nearly enough evidence that he existed as an actual person as opposed to an allegorical character.

    Any Dharmi willing to address the idea of Jesus would IMO do well to establish a context to clarify which perception of Jesus is proposed for the specific situation and work from there.

    Without such a precaution, confusion is all but certain to establish itself.
     
  10. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    sounds confused
     
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    We do not need Jesus in Hinduism. He is not even a friendly alien.
    Haha. Perfect and all knowing. You know who is that!
     
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  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Let start by defining what Dharmic is, it is the essence of the Way, that stems from the Source of reality...

    Therefore as Yeshua was a teacher of the Way, he should be questioned as a Dharmic deity.

    Yet to be clear, Christianity that was made up after his death is Adharmic, and thus the two sides should be questioned separately...

    On seeing there are prophecies pertaining to it, we should question if it is all Lila to test us.

    To me part of the Dharma is to use wisdom, and not be ignorant; thus we shouldn't limit our potential to understanding what might be inspired.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I have been to Pujas that have an image of Jesus on the altar. When I asked about it, I'm told that they (the devotees) view Jesus as a messenger of God.

    I personally view Jesus, if he indeed existed, as a teacher who, by appearance, was enlightened.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I dont see him any different than a historical religious figure just as many others. If anything, I find the focus on jesus more than say asking about the prophet Zoroaster would because we are in a christian environment (many of us especially the states). If we werent, why would jesus be any different than anyone else going through samsara?

    The Buddha taught specifically that god (brahma) is not the source to enlightenment. Jesus got his teachings from god. The Buddha also mentions we know The physical Dharma and practice from the buddhas, monastics, and bodhisattvas among others. Jesus taught you are only saved and taught salvation through one person: god.

    The Buddha says no one man is better than another. So, Id see jesus as a regular human being who has a personal relationship with his father like christians to jesus. Time period and interval shouldnt change someones godlihood.

    So, thats how I see him. I dont know about Hindus though.
     
  15. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    Essentially, the goal of Buddhism is spiritual awakening, while that of the 'Jesus' of modern Christianity is salvation. This modern 'Jesus' that has come down the turnpike to us was synthesized from three elements by St. Paul: one, Jewish history as backdrop to lend credibility to the myth; two, the image of the descending god-man as teacher of man, ie; the Logos, from the Gnostics; and three, the doctrine of the dying and resurrected god-man, whose source is the mystery religions in which Paul was steeped as a child while growing up in Tarsus. The man that these doctrines were built upon is Yeshua the Nazarene, a Jewish mystic, whose teachings did not include blood sacrifice (ie 'crucifixion', etc), a virgin birth, nor a bodily resurrection. Yeshua's teachings were breath-based, as in Eastern practices*, while these overlays from Paul and Rome were blood-based, as in Mithraism. By making Christianity a state religion, Rome could now have control over the citizenry, since the new religion incorporated the doctrine of complete submission, without question, as a means of gaining 'salvation'.

    So Yeshua would have a definite connection to Buddhist teachings, while 'Jesus' would not, other than the teachings of Yeshua which survived Rome's onslaught of the Nazarenes, and which show up in the Bible here and there.**

    Paul and the Mystery Religions

    *As I understand it, the Buddhist King Asoka from India sent his Theravada monks westward into Egypt and Greece to establish their monasteries there. This sect was transformed into the Therapeutae, one of the sects of the Essenes. Both Theravada and Therapeutae sects were healers, and had direct influence upon the Nazarene Essenes of Mt. Carmel, the mystical sect which Yeshua led.

    **One example may be Yeshua's words spoken from the cross. 'Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do': Here, Yeshua was imploring that his transgressors be forgiven, not for their sin, as the Christian focus would have it, but for their ignorance, which is the focus of Buddhist thought.
     
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  16. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    No, he taught that salvation was possible only through him:

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    John 14:6

    ....which is most interesting, in that the ancient god Mitra of the Indus Valley, as well as the Iranian Mithra, were intermediaries and had to do with the keeping of pacts, contracts, and covenants, and what did 'Jesus' do at the Last Supper but to re-negotiate a 'new' covenant between God and man. Further, the Graeco-Roman Mithras was a military god, and 'Jesus' is pictured as returning in the form of a conquering general. Coincidences? I think not.
     
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  17. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Here is just one example where Jesus passes the test in the Kalama Sutta:
    Kalama Sutta
    Kalama Sutta: The Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry
    6. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does hate appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" — "For his harm, venerable sir." — "Kalamas, being given to hate, and being overwhelmed and vanquished mentally by hate, this man takes life, steals, commits adultery, and tells lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and ill?" — "Yes, venerable sir."
    <...>
    9. "Therefore, did we say, Kalamas, what was said thus, 'Come Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill," abandon them.'
    <...>
    12. "What do you think, Kalamas? Does absence of hate appear in a man for his benefit or harm?" — "For his benefit, venerable sir." — "Kalamas, being not given to hate, and being not overwhelmed and not vanquished mentally by hate, this man does not take life, does not steal, does not commit adultery, and does not tell lies; he prompts another too, to do likewise. Will that be long for his benefit and happiness?" _ "Yes, venerable sir."
    <...>
    15. "Therefore, did we say, Kalamas, what was said thus, 'Come Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'​

    Matthew 5:43-48
    Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5 - New International Version
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​
     
  18. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That may have been about Jesus, though not necessarily. Perhaps he was a Mohammad who failed in his life time. Monotheists are like that. Even Zoroaster was one (he too did not succeed much during his life time). Jesus' followers, however, do not pass the test. Internet is full of christian hate for other religions. They still are colonials.
     
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  19. Sharmaji

    Sharmaji Member

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    He has no place in the Dharmic religions and there has been an ongoing debate whether the man Christians present us with truly existed.
     
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  20. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus and Kalki Avatar are one and the same. This belief came from growing up and being educated with Christians but I truly believe in Jesus and see no coincidence that and the end of days a figure will appear on a white horse and cast judgement
     

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