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How Progressive are you? (poll)

Which of the following statements to you mostly agree with.

  • Intersectionality theory is a positive tool for change.

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • All cultures merit equal respect.

    Votes: 13 39.4%
  • There is a patriarchy that oppresses women.

    Votes: 20 60.6%
  • Society should strive to achieve equality of outcome.

    Votes: 15 45.5%
  • Society should restrict hate speech.

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • Speech codes are a positive influence at universities.

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Lived experience deserves as much merit as expertise.

    Votes: 19 57.6%
  • Universities are improved when trigger warnings and safe spaces are provided.

    Votes: 10 30.3%
  • The West's history negates its claims to be a superior culture.

    Votes: 16 48.5%
  • Society should strive to reduce micro-aggressions.

    Votes: 12 36.4%

  • Total voters
    33

Orbit

I'm a planet
Intersectionality's basic ideas aren't that difficult. We all simultaneously hold multiple social positions; some of those are more, or less, privileged in society. For example a white woman has social privilege because of skin color, but may face obstacles because of her gender. A black woman is negatively privileged in both race and gender. The concept also includes social class, so a rich black woman is privileged in one way (being rich) but may face obstacles because of race and gender. It's a way of talking about how complicated social position is. It's not a contest to see who has the most or least privilege, it's a way to take apart social position so that you can talk about relative advantages and disadvantages.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
It's a way of talking about how complicated social position is.
But only as it relates to oppression of said groups.

It's not a contest to see who has the most or least privilege, it's a way to take apart social position so that you can talk about relative advantages and disadvantages.
As seen through the lens of oppression and tends to fixate on the source of that oppression being the systemic white supremacist patriarchy.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I consider myself progressive. I'm for LGBT rights, women's equality, etc. I don't however consider censorship a legitimate means of achieving such goals.
Also, how can you be progressive if you consider a culture that's oppressive and bigoted as being equal to one that's free and egalitarian? No, not all cultures deserve respect.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
But only as it relates to oppression of said groups.

As seen through the lens of oppression and tends to fixate on the source of that oppression being the systemic white supremacist patriarchy.

Yes, that is a given in the formative articles (Kimberlee Crenshaw etc), but I should also point out that the concept has been expanded since its formation, and it depends on who is using the theoretical concept how it is used. I use it to point out the multiplicity of advantages/disadvantages that we all share. Others focus on particular sets of disadvantages only (oppression). I have no objection with examining social structural oppression.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Well, this thread neatly "outs" all the anti-progressives lol

Or rather it outs progressives that reject the hypocritical "SJW" route (such as using discrimination to fight discrimination). Also, believe it or not, one CAN support both equality and free speech.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Or rather it outs progressives that reject the hypocritical "SJW" route (such as using discrimination to fight discrimination). Also, believe it or not, one CAN support both equality and free speech.

I find that the typical "SJW" is a combination of strawman and fallacy of dramatic instance. There are limits to free speech, ask the Germans about that.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I find that the typical "SJW" is a combination of strawman and fallacy of dramatic instance. There are limits to free speech, ask the Germans about that.

"SJW" refers to a subculture that very much exists, and whose methods and ideologies do not represent liberals and progressive as a whole.
And yeah, I'm aware of the Germany's goofy censorship laws, but what about them?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I find that the typical "SJW" is a combination of strawman and fallacy of dramatic instance. There are limits to free speech, ask the Germans about that.
Nah.
The "SJW" is a real critter.
But some wrongly apply the label to all progressives.
It's only a small (crazy) subset.

Anyway, I look forward to the OP explaining his mischievous survey.
(I'm guessing at his intent, but won't spoil the fun....more than I already have.)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Yes, that is a given in the formative articles (Kimberlee Crenshaw etc), but I should also point out that the concept has been expanded since its formation, and it depends on who is using the theoretical concept how it is used. I use it to point out the multiplicity of advantages/disadvantages that we all share. Others focus on particular sets of disadvantages only (oppression). I have no objection with examining social structural oppression.
Exploring this further might be very interesting. I've been planning on doing a thread on Intersectionality since before Christmas, but have been stymied by just where to begin. How bout we cap this discussion now and I'll wrap up my thinking and create the thread. I'll be sure to @Orbit tag you once it is ready. (Give me a few days.)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
One choice I find troubling is the number of people who voted for "Society should strive to achieve equality of outcome."

Having a society that achieves equality of outcome is a society that will destroy incentive. Why do anything at all? I cannot quite wrap my head around why anyone would think that a desirable thing. Can anyone offer some insight?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
One I find troubling is the number of people who voted for "Society should strive to achieve equality of outcome."

Having a society that achieves equality of outcome is a society that will destroy incentive. Why do anything at all? I cannot quite wrap my head around why anyone would think that a desirable thing. Can anyone offer some insight?
I want what Warren Buffet has.
His advantages (discipline, intelligence, perseverance, education, expertises) are unfair.
Just because I'm lazy, unambitious, slow, & unqualified, I shouldn't have less.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I'm still wondering when Progressivism becaame synonymous with Liberalism (filing anti-trust suits and busting up large corporations aren't even on the poll).
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
One choice I find troubling is the number of people who voted for "Society should strive to achieve equality of outcome."
It's not even a possibility, and I don't even see how people can think it a goal. Will a quadriplegic win gold medals like Michael Phelps? Of course not, and there is no way to equalize things for that to happen.
 
Last edited:

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This poll is an attempt to discover how many RFers support some common progressive ideas, and which of these ideas are most widely supported here. Many of these are complex ideas, hard to boil down to a short sentence, so I'm requesting that if you support the spirit of a particular idea, but don't like the phrasing of the question, answer yes anyway.

Thanks.


  1. Intersectionality theory is a positive tool for change.
  2. All cultures merit equal respect.
  3. There is a patriarchy that oppresses women.
  4. Society should strive to achieve equality of outcome.
  5. Society should restrict hate speech.
  6. Speech codes are a positive influence at universities.
  7. Lived experience deserves as much merit as expertise.
  8. Universities are improved when trigger warnings and safe spaces are provided.
  9. The West's history negates its claims to be a superior culture.
  10. Society should strive to reduce micro-aggressions.


No, X 10. :D

1. Intersectionality is based on highly subjective criteria, which leaves one to question the legitimacy of the criteria in the first place.

2. Some cultures are absolutely violent and terrible, they do not deserve respect. Respect cannot be demanded it has to be earned through merit or other legitimate appreciation.

3. No, there are predisposed inclinations between men and women. Women focus on people naturally, men focus on solutions/things. This addresses most of the perceived imbalance. It explains why there is 20 to 1 women nurses to men, and 20 to 1 men as engineers to women. And, there is nothing wrong with this - as long as no artificial bars to either path have been erected.

4. Equality of outcome is also equality of failure. It's less like a staircase, and more like an economic prison which no one can escape.

5. It's impossible to quantify what is hate speech other than what specifically applies to race or genetics. The loony left has taken this to mean anything they don't like, and banning that makes freedom of speech and discourse impossible.

6. Speech codes limit the territory of free expression to merely the subjects which are common sense/already accepted. However, evolution doesn't favor this methodology - often what pisses us off or hurts us in the short term is a long term win. Without having these discourses we'd never have the freedom to dare... and the profits as results

7. Lived experience is irrelevant, you can pick up new skills tomorrow and be better at it than someone else. Though, I would say in particular there is a gradual development of the socialization process that is, to some extent, more valuable as we age. This is a soft skill, and much harder to quantify, obviously...

8. Safe spaces only exist to give intellectually and emotionally inferior people a veto power to someone their superior in every way. It's just thought censorship, and completely detrimental.

9.. The West is the only culture that has steered clear of massive human injustice, and done it not because it had to, but because it was what was right. Slavery still happens all over the middle east and Africa, for example... Women are garbage in those countries as well, so I just don't think the "west" is that bad. Yeah, the west has problems, but it's not _those_ problems.

10. Micro-aggressions are aggressions that you didn't know you did. I can't conceive of a better way to waste your life away. Also, since you do not know that you do them how could you address them even if you wanted to? I'm not losing any sleep over these things... I'll tell you that.
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
7 out of 10, so pretty darn progressive- as I already knew.

I am not so 'progressive' though as people typically mean that word, on one issue: abortion.

I suppose being pro-choice makes me progressive enough, but that doesn't mean I encourage or favor abortion. My beliefs are pretty well against casual abortion.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I only agree with 2 of those statements. Not a huge surprise though.

All cultures merit equal respect.

Lived experience deserves as much respect as expertise.
 
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