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How Paul wrote the old testament.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Simplelogic, Dec 26, 2014.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Notta problem on either of the above. Hey, sometimes I tend to "lose it", although at least I'm thankful that I'm not at all a violent person. But emotional, yes.

    Happy New Year to you & yours, and also to all who may be reading this.
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Without getting in to it, let me just say that there are many quotes from the Tanakh that are badly taken out of their context, and there's even one "quote" (I believe from Jesus, but I'm going on my memory here, which is at times suspect) that cannot be found anywhere in the Tanakh.
     
  3. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

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    There is one quote I am familiar with that was not from the Law, the Prophets, nor the Holy Writings but evidently was a saying that was in use by the religious leaders of his day.

    "You heard that it was said: 'You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'" - Mt 5:43

    The love part was substantiated by Le 19:18 but the second part of the phase has no connection with Hebrew Scripture.
     
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  4. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Yeshua only said...."you have heard that it was said" so he wasn't necesarrily claiming it to be scripture. I believe he was talking about 1st century pharisaic doctrine in this case. I need to revisit that.
     
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  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    BTW, just a reminder that what we read in the scriptures was not based on tape recordings of what they actually did say.
     
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  6. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    Most quotes that seem not to be quotes will be from the Essenes. The content will be found in the OT even if not as per passage. But we have no way of knowing how they understood it or how he spoke it
     
  7. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm. Not sure I agree.
     
  8. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    Better response than I thought. :)
    It would seem odd, would it not, that he did not know what they said in the OT.
    What is to stop someone writing scripture then, improving on it, or even now?
    Can I write scripture? What do you think?
     
  9. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I think its obvious that Paul did know the Tanakh. Yet his ideas were concepts which couldn't be found in the scriptures so he decided to take snippets of scripture and paste them together to give his ideas credibility. Then later, Origen decided to add these misquotes into the Greek LXX to preserve Paul.
     
  10. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    It would not be animals.... it was an offering, probably money
     
  11. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    If indeed they are. I suppose I should read the links, right?
    If so, then it seems taht there was indeed some influence. I don't have a problem with it though. interesting though.
     
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  12. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    It was definitely animals. The four men were keeping a nazarite vow. There was no monitary gift involved with the Nazarite vow. Here is how a nazarite vow ended:

    13And this is the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: 14And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings, 15And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings. 16And the priest shall bring them before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering: 17And he shall offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering. 18And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings. Numbers 6: 13-18
     
  13. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21: 23-24

    In order for the men to shave their heads they had to offer the three animal sacrifices. James instructs Paul to offer these animals for them. This was to prove that Paul still kept the law of Moses.
     
  14. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    I have a problem with it if it can be determined to be deceptive usage of Scriptures.
     
  15. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    Acts confirms that these were animal sacrifices here:

    26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. Acts 21:26
     
  16. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    I have skimmed the links.
    The question I have is, How do I know that what they are saying is right? The sites might be right, they might not. On whose authority are they stating this?
    But even if they are correct, and I suspect theya re, it matters little really. Scripture is spirituall discerned.

    Acts 21 does not mention specifically that it is a Nazarite vow. Through the Essenes it would be slightly different. It would not be animal as they did not do that because they did not have access to the real Temple at Yerushalaim.

    So they were probably Nazarenes, there version of the same. No animal sacrifices.
     
  17. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    The reason that it had to play out that way is that Yahshuah could not kill his own creation. God did not ask for animal sacrifices. That is what we did. He then gave rules for it. The lord could not eat meat nor kill animals. He had to be pure. One is not pure slaughtering an animal...... even though the Mosaic law demanded it. But as i have said, they were not at the real temple.
     
  18. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    Offering... it does not say animal.
     
  19. Robert.Evans

    Robert.Evans You will be assimilated; it is His Will.

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    I know you seem to have problems with Paul, but he was chosen by the lord. So why have problems with him. If scripture is right, and it is, then it is what it is.

    Do not forget what Peter said, that Paul's words are ''hard to understand''.
     
  20. Simplelogic

    Simplelogic Well-Known Member

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    Well…the nazarite "offerings" were animal sacrifices. This was a test for Paul to prove his devotion to the law of Moses. The law of Moses tells us exactly how this process was to go. I'm not sure why were are off on this point. O well.
     
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