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How Natural Selection Works.

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
This seems to be a real problem for some people hereabouts. Some don't seem to understand how Natural Selection works so I thought I'd take the time to explain it.

The most basic experiment you can conduct to evidence how natural selection works, and how everything is adjusted to its environment is take a worm and put it in a very visible place. Very soon it will be eaten. Why? Because the worm is only suited to a non-seeing environment. Underground. Once you put it in a seeing environment, it will quickly fall prey to things suited to seeing environments. In other words it will be naturally selected for death because it can't cope in the conditions it has been put in. But how did the worms get to the point where they were perfectly adapted to a non-seeing environment?


Let us say we have ten worms in their early stage of evolutionary development. They have no eyes, but what they have instead is light detecting cells at different places on each worm at different degrees of sensitivity.

Four of these worms have light-cells at the head. So, when our ten worms come up for air, the ones with light-cells elsewhere on their bodies are eaten, where the ones with the light cells at the head manage to retreat into the earth in the nick of time.

Our four remaining worms breed and carry their genetic data forward. Now we have ten new worms all with light-cells of varying sensitivity at the head.

When our worms come up for air again, five of the worms with the least sensitive cells are too slow to retract into the earth, having detecting the shadow of the bird too late, and are gobbled up.

The remaining five breed and carry that genetic data forward.


And this cycle continues on until one of two things happen:

1) either the organism becomes extinct due to being unable to adapt to its environment.

2) it is refined by natural selection until they are perfectly adapted to their environment.

This is what happened with the dinosaurs, essentially. Quite what the cause was is still opaque to us, (theories abound), but what happened was that their environment changed so fast and so suddenly that they were unable to adapt quickly enough to the new environment and died.


The reason the subject becomes fugged up, in all due respect, is that even scientists have a bad habit of projecting human values onto things that do not possess them. You might say a bird 'sings', but birds do not sing. They communicate at variable frequencies (many of which are outside of human hearing abilities). 'Singing' is simply a human projection. What you take to be the 'beautiful dawn chorus' is, in reality, a ritual in which birds communicate to those around them that they still occupy the branch they're on. If they fail to do so, another bird will move in and try to take the branch.

People say things like: the insect evolved to look like a leaf. But that's not how evolution works. Things do not evolve to look like anything, they evolved every which way and some insects just happened to look roughly like leaves. When these insects were on plain ground they found they were picked off, but when on leaves, weren't. So simply remained on the leaves. Their predators don't possess enough of an associative memory to tell apart the insect from the leaf even though the insect only looks very roughly like a leaf. It's important to avoid that projection, or see through it. They may also say things like 'It has horns to kill prey with'. No. It has horns and it does kill prey with it. But that is not the purpose of the horns. As horns tend to point in many different directions, some ill suited for slaying other animals, and some are blunt! They might say 'Camels have wider hoofs so they don't sink into the sand.' No. They have wider hoofs and they don't sink into the sand. But there is no purpose behind nature.

Let us say that you had a hard plat of solid bone on your shoulder. We might say 'The purpose of that is to ram obstacles with'. But this is not the case. If you had this bony plate, but had always lived in an open environment such as a desert plane, you'd never think twice about the growth at all. If asked 'what's that for?' you might say 'No idea. IT just grows there.' But if I locked you in a room, you might try the door. Then you might give it a slam with your fist. Then you might try to ram it with your hip. Then you might try ramming it with your shoulder - the one with the bony plate on it - and the door at that point might burst into splinters setting you free. You'll remember that and do it again in a similar situation. But unless you had been trapped in the room you'd never have used it as a battering ram so that is not it's purpose.



This process can be best observed in the Mimic Octopus. It's an octopus that can change its size and shape to assume the very rough identity of another fish, such as a Lion Fish. Now to you and I we can tell the difference between a Lion Fish and a Mimic Octopus trying to disguise itself as one, but marine animals cannot, they don't have a complex enough associative memory. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but I hope this helps!
 
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FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
I would take out the part where it says "perfectly adapted" I don't think any population is perfectly adapted to their environment. They are however well suited.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Evolution is not that simple

Explain the variations in sight
Explain intelligence

Simplifying Evolution is the reason why so many people challenge it. There are no simple explanations for why this was selected and not this. Its not as simple as just being lunch, some changes survived for generations before failing and some failed do to environmental changes.

The honest truth is that evolution is a scientific theory that requires good knowledge of biology to understand properly and educate properly. It should not be debated by the common man. It is unfortunate that some atheists use it as proof against religion.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think this a is good example of looking at the world through evolutionary glasses, or rather blinders. The lowly earthworm aerates the soil, produces huge amounts of plant food, and cleans the soil as well. It is a remarkably designed creature that is but one example of millions that give evidence of a superhuman Designer.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Evolution is not that simple

Explain the variations in sight
Explain intelligence

Simplifying Evolution is the reason why so many people challenge it. There are no simple explanations for why this was selected and not this. Its not as simple as just being lunch, some changes survived for generations before failing and some failed do to environmental changes.

The honest truth is that evolution is a scientific theory that requires good knowledge of biology to understand properly and educate properly. It should not be debated by the common man. It is unfortunate that some atheists use it as proof against religion.

The fact is evolution (as commonly understood) is an unprovable theory that is supported only by endless propaganda and appeals to special knowledge attained only by a select few. Little wonder, IMO, it is the subject of such heated debate.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
The fact is evolution (as commonly understood) is an unprovable theory that is supported only by endless propaganda and appeals to special knowledge attained only by a select few. Little wonder, IMO, it is the subject of such heated debate.

You think THAT'S why it's the subject of heated debate?
Funny...I thought it was because it ran contrary to some people's religious beliefs.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I don't see how worms have anything to do with dolphins giving birth to elephants. I've never seen an elephant come out of a dolphin's hoo-ha, have you?

Evolution loses.
 
I don't see how worms have anything to do with dolphins giving birth to elephants. I've never seen an elephant come out of a dolphin's hoo-ha, have you?

Evolution loses.

Wow, slow down! Evolution is SLOW changes over very LONG periods of time. What you're describing is an instant gigantic change with your elephant giving birth to a dolphin analogy! It's best to have knowledge of a subject before discussing it.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Wow, slow down! Evolution is SLOW changes over very LONG periods of time. What you're describing is an instant gigantic change with your elephant giving birth to a dolphin analogy! It's best to have knowledge of a subject before discussing it.

I said a dolphin giving birth to an elephant. Pfft - I'm supposed to take your word on evolution when you've demonstrated a lack of basic reading comprehension? Sounds about as like as a monkey giving birth to a man!
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I think this a is good example of looking at the world through evolutionary glasses, or rather blinders. The lowly earthworm aerates the soil, produces huge amounts of plant food, and cleans the soil as well. It is a remarkably designed creature that is but one example of millions that give evidence of a superhuman Designer.
For whom we can also thank for
Variola major and V. minor (the two smallpox viruses).

Lyssavirus rabis (the rabies virus)

Bacillus anthracis. (anthrax)

Enterovirus spp (polio)

Pediculus humanus humanus (human body lice)

Rickettsia rickettsii (Rocky Mountain spotted fever)

Hymenolepis diminuta and H. nana (human tapeworms)

Lyme borreliosis (lime disease)

Cryptococcus neoformans (fungi responsible for meningitis and encephalitis)

Is this where we're now supposed to say, "Thank you god"?
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
For whom we can also thank for
Variola major and V. minor (the two smallpox viruses).

Lyssavirus rabis (the rabies virus)

Bacillus anthracis. (anthrax)

Enterovirus spp (polio)

Pediculus humanus humanus (human body lice)

Rickettsia rickettsii (Rocky Mountain spotted fever)

Hymenolepis diminuta and H. nana (human tapeworms)

Lyme borreliosis (lime disease)

Cryptococcus neoformans (fungi responsible for meningitis and encephalitis)

Is this where we're now supposed to say, "Thank you god"?


You forget Zaire ebolavirus
 
I said a dolphin giving birth to an elephant. Pfft - I'm supposed to take your word on evolution when you've demonstrated a lack of basic reading comprehension? Sounds about as like as a monkey giving birth to a man!

I have very good reading comprehension, thank you very much. Either way, a dolphin giving birth to an elephant, or an elephant giving birth to a dolphin DOES NOT HAPPEN and nobody claims that it does. To be honest, your completely absurd misrepresentation of what evolution is didn't even deserve a response. It is very clear that you know very little to nothing on the subject.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
For whom we can also thank for
Variola major and V. minor (the two smallpox viruses).

Lyssavirus rabis (the rabies virus)

Bacillus anthracis. (anthrax)

Enterovirus spp (polio)

Pediculus humanus humanus (human body lice)

Rickettsia rickettsii (Rocky Mountain spotted fever)

Hymenolepis diminuta and H. nana (human tapeworms)

Lyme borreliosis (lime disease)

Cryptococcus neoformans (fungi responsible for meningitis and encephalitis)

Is this where we're now supposed to say, "Thank you god"?

The Bible explains where disease and death come from, for any interested enough to investigate, rather than just blaming God for man's troubles.
 
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