How much of this info is true.

[Templar of Truth]

I am not spurring on hate. I am trying to exercise free speech and free discussion. How much of this video is true?

 

[Raahim]

Again? You can ask this question in written form from your own words, not by posting a YouTube troll.

 

[Templar of Truth]

Again? You can ask this question in written form from your own words, not by posting a YouTube troll.

Ok, did Muhammad kill woman's fathers them rape those women? Did he say that it was ok to rape women who were married if they were taken in battle? Did Muhammad teach his followers to subjugate or kill Christians and Jews? Are you supposed to kill apostates? I can go on but that will be enough. Please answer my questions. I want to know how much is false.

 

[Quintessence]

The more central question is not whether or not something is true, but how it is relevant. Even for religions that have an identified founder, it is unwise to regard the character of the founder to be indicative of the character of the religions spurned by them, much less all the individuals who identify with said religion.

 

[Templar of Truth]

The more central question is not whether or not something is true, but how it is relevant. Even for religions that have an identified founder, it is unwise to regard the character of the founder to be indicative of the character of the religions spurned by them, much less all the individuals who identify with said religion.

But Islam is encircled around Muhammad and it is the goal of Muslims to be as Muhammad and if that's the case then we all are in trouble.

 

[Raahim]

Ok, did Muhammad kill woman's fathers them rape those women? Did he say that it was ok to rape women who were married if they were taken in battle? Did Muhammad teach his followers to subjugate or kill Christians and Jews? Are you supposed to kill apostates? I can go on but that will be enough. Please answer my questions. I want to know how much is false.

Almost all these questions means to mock the Prophet ﷺ are already answered, and most of them are false.

But Islam is encircled around Muhammad and it is the goal of Muslims to be as Muhammad and if that's the case then we all are in trouble.

Did you just really wrote that? If Muhammad ﷺ was really such character of hatred and Muslims acted like so - Earth would long be dead. You are ignorant on this topic and this is the reason why many won't bother with your topic.

 

[Templar of Truth]

Almost all these questions means to mock the Prophet ﷺ are already answered, and most of them are false.



Did you just really wrote that? If Muhammad ﷺ was really such character of hatred and Muslims acted like so - Earth would long be dead. You are ignorant on this topic and this is the reason why many won't bother with your topic.

Ok I guess I can see you're point. How do you view Muhammad?

 

[Raahim]

Ok I guess I can see you're point. How do you view Muhammad?

My view on the Prophet ﷺ is irrelevant - it's the message he brought from God that is important. Do I consider him a loved, wise, generous and spiritual person? I do because God would not reveal that which He did to a corrupt person and there are many proofs that make my statement valid. The Prophet ﷺ and Yeshua ﷺ were both men that we should look up to and hear their message about one true God.

 

[Templar of Truth]

My view on the Prophet ﷺ is irrelevant - it's the message he brought from God that is important. Do I consider him a loved, wise, generous and spiritual person? I do because God would not reveal that which He did to a corrupt person and there are many proofs that make my statement valid. The Prophet ﷺ and Yeshua ﷺ were both men that we should look up to and hear their message about one true God.

Ok, but historically Muhammad spread his message by the sword. Is it gods will to either convert or die? While I read history why do I see Muhammad as a warlord?

 

[Templar of Truth]

Also, why is this in the Quran?

Quran (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

 

[Raahim]

Ok, but historically Muhammad spread his message by the sword. Is it gods will to either convert or die? While I read history why do I see Muhammad as a warlord?

Judging by your username I can assume you're Christian and aren't very educated in Islamic history and even Quran since it seems Christians are very good as miss-quoting and miss-interpreting holy books (which is proved with your quoting of 2:191-193). There is a topic on "Was Islam spread by sword" which I can hint you the answer - no.

Read the verse before the one you quoted, you gotta see the bigger picture, not just what you want to see.
And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah takes not the transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah (polytheism) is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid Al-Haram, unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

 

[blue taylor]

The more central question is not whether or not something is true, but how it is relevant. Even for religions that have an identified founder, it is unwise to regard the character of the founder to be indicative of the character of the religions spurned by them, much less all the individuals who identify with said religion.

A corrupt tree does not produce good fruit.

 

[Raahim]

A corrupt tree does not produce good fruit.

Of course it doesn't, that's logical.

 

[Quintessence]

A corrupt tree does not produce good fruit.

Metaphors only make sense when they're a rough model approximation of the system (which this metaphor is not). Also, speaking as a botanist, I have no idea what a "corrupt" tree is. If by "corrupt" we mean "diseased," diseased trees do actually produce good (as in viable) fruit.

 

[lovesong]

While I'm not particularly a fan of either of the two fan-bases, I have to admit, he did site his sources...

 

[Raahim]

While I'm not particularly a fan of either of the two fan-bases, I have to admit, he did site his sources...

Taking verses out of context don't really count if you ask me.

Example:
Yeshua ﷺ called to Holy war: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"

 

[lovesong]

Taking verses out of context don't really count if you ask me.

Example:
Yeshua ﷺ called to Holy war: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"

Never said Christianity was much better!

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Also, why is this in the Quran?

Quran (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

These verse have been explained time and time again but I will, for arguments sake, believe you have never come across the truth of these verses. Now, first, I quote them in full, not condensed as you have:

2:191:
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192:
And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193:
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

These verses, as is the 190th verse, is all about warfare. It clearly states (As do verses in other parts of the Quran) to fight in retaliation and to fight against those who hurt and oppress but to never transgress for "Allah does not like transgressors", i.e. to not exceed limits and to stay within the confines of Islamic rules of engagement. This is not a verse about indiscriminate killing, it is a verse about warfare in self defense and it quite clearly states that if these same people surrender, or want peace, then give it to them.

It's not a difficult set of verses to understand if one knows the context of revelation.

 

[Raahim]

Never said Christianity was much better!

Everyone's opinion is welcome on ReligiousForums

These verse have been explained time and time again but I will, for arguments sake, believe you have never come across the truth of these verses. Now, first, I quote them in full, not condensed as you have:

2:191:
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192:
And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193:
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

These verses, as is the 190th verse, is all about warfare. It clearly states (As do verses in other parts of the Quran) to fight in retaliation and to fight against those who hurt and oppress but to never transgress for "Allah does not like transgressors", i.e. to not exceed limits and to stay within the confines of Islamic rules of engagement. This is not a verse about indiscriminate killing, it is a verse about warfare in self defense and it quite clearly states that if these same people surrender, or want peace, then give it to them.

It's not a difficult set of verses to understand if one knows the context of revelation.

Very well said brother.

 

[Templar of Truth]

I got to say that I am enjoying these conversations. I am excited that I am getting answers from Muslims. Though I may not agree with everything being proposed it is good to hear your view points. Thank you for discussing with me. I do appreciate it.