How Much of the New Testament Is Actually New?

[halbhh]

Did Yeshua come as a radical revolutionary to do away with an old, outdated system? Is the NT all about grace and love, whereas the tanach was full of wrath and judgment? Does the New Testament lay out new standards for us to live by, doing away with the need to follow the torah?
These are all things I've heard, and I want to know what y'all think about these and other things, and why. Keep in mind that YHWH does not change.

Malachi 3:6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;
Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It's a (popular) misconception the tanakh is just judgement and wrath, and the new testament is only mercy and grace.

They are far more alike than different.

If one reads fully through the 'old' testament, one sees over and over Grace and Mercy in it, freely available:

Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.

Grace.

This amazing chapter is even the gospel told ahead of time --
Isaiah 55 NIV

 

[sojourner]

How so?

First of all, you can’t use Romans as a biblical standard, because Romans wasn’t biblical when it was written. Second, Paul’s position is against specific law-keeping as a determination for righteousness. The gospels point us away from that thought as well. It’s not the outward keeping of laws, but the inward digestion of the law of love.

 

[firedragon]

Incorrect. About half of the quotes attributed to Jesus are considered to be authentic.

Read the context of what I said.

 

[Brian2]

Any verse where Jesus says that?

I can remember a verse where Jesus says He had been sent only to the children of Israel. (Matt 15:24)
I can see that Jesus gave the New Covenant to the Jews. (Luke 22:20)
I can see that the New Covenant and Gospel went to the Gentiles.
I can see in the OT that Jesus was sent as a light and salvation for the Gentiles. (Isa 49:6)
I can see where Jesus said that there were other sheep that are to be collected also and think that means the Gentiles. (John 10:16)
I can see where the Holy Spirit directed the apostles to preach to the Gentiles in Acts.

 

[Brian2]

It depends, most Jews follow the Torah and the oral Torah, with a few (the Karaites, I believe, although I could be wrong, and perhaps there's a few others besides) who just follow the written Torah. Personally, I believe in scripture alone as the authority, although our understandings of some things that are not so clear in the Torah (such as the way to slaughter animals) come from from Judaism.

I'm sure there are ways of understanding many things that come from Judaism.
Many Christians over the years have not gained much knowledge of the scriptures but still know God because of the Spirit God has given them.

 

[Brian2]

I don't believe that is biblically substantiated. We have not yet been made sinless, therefore we still need to go by the biblical standard as our measure of what is right and good. We know what sin is by the law (Romans 3:20 b), and sin is transgression of the Torah (1John 3:4).
Also, the greatest commandment is to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength- how do we know how to love him? From what I see, it is by walking in his ways. If you love me, keep my commandments. We can't just decide to love him our own way, he is a holy God, and he has laid out the way in which we should walk.
Our own being and actions do not fulfill the Torah unless we do as he says.

The Law was for the Jews.
The New Covenant is for all people, including Jews, and is the new way to do what God wants us to do.

 

[firedragon]

I can remember a verse where Jesus says He had been sent only to the children of Israel. (Matt 15:24)
I can see that Jesus gave the New Covenant to the Jews. (Luke 22:20)
I can see that the New Covenant and Gospel went to the Gentiles.
I can see in the OT that Jesus was sent as a light and salvation for the Gentiles. (Isa 49:6)
I can see where Jesus said that there were other sheep that are to be collected also and think that means the Gentiles. (John 10:16)
I can see where the Holy Spirit directed the apostles to preach to the Gentiles in Acts.

So like the explicit statement about the children of Israel, there is no explicit statement attributed to Jesus about the gentiles!

 

[Brian2]

So like the explicit statement about the children of Israel, there is no explicit statement attributed to Jesus about the gentiles!

Jesus came to the Jews and the apostles took the gospel first to the Jews but Jesus actually did say to take it to the Gentiles.
Matt 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Mark 13:10And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations.

 

[Batya]

The Law was for the Jews.
The New Covenant is for all people, including Jews, and is the new way to do what God wants us to do.

The law was for Israel, and also for any who wished to turn from their ways (idolatry, etc) and come into covenant with YHWH, thus becoming part of Israel.
Please show me where it says that about the new covenant. The new covenant is exclusively with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31), not with gentiles or anyone else. That is why we have to come into covenant with YHWH, and be "grafted in" as it says in Romans 11. In Yeshua we become Abraham's seed.

 

[roberto]

The only part of the law that was done away with was the requirements for sacrifices. Jesus' sacrifice permanently removed the need for them.

Now lets see...........

Are you aware that Shaul/Paul took sin sacrifices to the temple on demand of all the disciples for his "sins"?
I believe Paul lived after the crucifixion of the messiah?

Are you aware that with the 3rd temple all Nations will bring sin sacrifices to the temple?

 

[sojourner]

So like the explicit statement about the children of Israel, there is no explicit statement attributed to Jesus about the gentiles!

Does it have to be “explicit?” Why can’t it be implied?

 

[halbhh]

There are no verses supposedly said by Jesus .

That's only a highly speculative idea. We know the that Mark was written down in the neighborhood of about 35-37 years after Jesus, so therefore for instance some of the ~ 20 year olds that heard him in person would still be alive. So making a theory that no one could remember anything is highly speculative. In reality people remember some events that make a strong impression on them in youth, and some people remember with accuracy. But for events that have a lot of witnesses, they need only compare their memories and it becomes clear what is widely remembered in common. So, the most plausible hypothesis for a non believer would be that Mark conveys some real sayings.

Incorrect. About half of the quotes attributed to Jesus are considered to be authentic.

Interesting you say "half". Why "half" in particular, instead of 'some' or 'many' or 'most', etc.?

 

[Harel13]

Are you aware that with the 3rd temple all Nations will bring sin sacrifices to the temple?

You can do that now. No need for a temple.

 

[sojourner]

the most plausible hypothesis for a non believer would be that Mark conveys some real sayings.

Mark contains many authentic Jesus quotes. They have multiple attestations in Q and in Thomas many times.

Interesting you say "half". Why "half" in particular, instead of 'some' or 'many' or 'most', etc.?

It’s an approximation. Research by Gospel scholars has calculated this approximation.

 

[Batya]

You can do that now. No need for a temple.

Interesting, I've never heard of that before.

 

[Harel13]

Interesting, I've never heard of that before.

Sometimes Jews get asked what they do would were they not Jewish. Some say they would go to Walmart and buy the necessary materials, build an altar and make a sacrifice.

 

[metis]

Did Yeshua come as a radical revolutionary to do away with an old, outdated system?

Somewhat radical, as the letter of the Law [613 Commandments] need not be followed per Jesus' teachings. That's not entirely radical as Hillel sorta went in that same direction but not as far.

 

[Batya]

Somewhat radical, as the letter of the Law [613 Commandments] need not be followed per Jesus' teachings. That's not entirely radical as Hillel sorta went in that same direction but not as far.

And which of his teachings say that we no longer need to follow the Torah?

 

[metis]

And which of his teachings say that we no longer need to follow the Torah?

Jesus boiled the Law down to two main teachings: love of God and love of our neighbor [all]. Therefore, it's conceivable that all the rest are either elaborations and/or applications towards those ends.

Thus, Torah is a "how to..." approach that applied to eretz Israel over 2000 years ago, thus some of those Commandments may not apply as well today in the country where you or I may live.

 

[firedragon]

Does it have to be “explicit?” Why can’t it be implied?

Alright. Which verse are you referring to? Words of Jesus himself.