Jim
Nets of Wonder
I see some interesting parallels there. Compassion and kindness explicitly. Then a parallel between empathetic joy and seeing ourselves in others, and between equanimity and alleviating fear.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How might people learn to love with the kind of love that the world needs?
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
PureX
Veteran Member
When we feel cared for, and cared about, by others, we need not fear misfortune so much. Nor do we need not be greedy, and hoard our good fortune. In sharing, we gain security, not lose it (as we sadly assume, in our current culture). Whereas in hoarding, we both create and legitimize the fear and insecurity that drives us to hoard, and to disregard each other's well-being, making everyone insecure, even the hoarder.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I asked a friend of mine how she learned that kind of love. She said she trained herself by reminding herself sometimes to stop and drink in the beauty around her. I asked her why, why did she want to learn to love that way? She said that it was because of some experiences she had where she loved seeing mountains. I think that the kind of love that we’re discussing here, that the world needs, is very good and healthy for us. Loving people and nature with the kind of love that the world needs makes a person healthier and happier. I think that most or all people can actually sense that, when we love people and nature that way, we can sense that it’s healthy for us, and we want do do it more. There are things that each person can do, for that love to grow in them.
Part of what will happen might be people becoming more consciously aware of that kind of love, and its value and importance, and recognizing and encouraging it in themselves and others. Everyone might know some things about how to do that. Discussions like this might help increase awareness, and we might get some ideas and encouragement from each other. I’m learning to be more confident about it, and not be discouraged from talking about it by adverse reactions to it.
I think that part of it will be the work that we each do on our own personality and the way we live our lives, in ways that will bring more beauty and happiness into the lives of others, in everything we do, everywhere all the time. Part of that for me now is learning not to react in intimidating and incriminating ways to things that people do that I don’t like.
One simple and very effective idea for me has been to just think of being genuinely friendly all the time, but it has to be genuine. I’ve been practicing and learning, when people do things that I don’t like, to bring myself to genuinely warm and friendly feelings before I respond. One way I’ve learned to do that is to remind myself that I’ve done worse.
I’ve been learning more and more to catch myself when I’m falling into hostile feelings as I’m writing a post, and to go back and erase that part and start over.
Part of what will happen might be people becoming more consciously aware of that kind of love, and its value and importance, and recognizing and encouraging it in themselves and others. Everyone might know some things about how to do that. Discussions like this might help increase awareness, and we might get some ideas and encouragement from each other. I’m learning to be more confident about it, and not be discouraged from talking about it by adverse reactions to it.
I think that part of it will be the work that we each do on our own personality and the way we live our lives, in ways that will bring more beauty and happiness into the lives of others, in everything we do, everywhere all the time. Part of that for me now is learning not to react in intimidating and incriminating ways to things that people do that I don’t like.
One simple and very effective idea for me has been to just think of being genuinely friendly all the time, but it has to be genuine. I’ve been practicing and learning, when people do things that I don’t like, to bring myself to genuinely warm and friendly feelings before I respond. One way I’ve learned to do that is to remind myself that I’ve done worse.
I’ve been learning more and more to catch myself when I’m falling into hostile feelings as I’m writing a post, and to go back and erase that part and start over.
Samana Johann
Restricted by request
"How few understand what love really is,...
...and how it arises in the human heart. It is so frequently equated with good feelings toward others, with benevolence or nonviolence or service. But these things in themselves are not love. Love springs from awareness. It is only inasmuch as you see someone as he or she is really here, and not how they are in your memory or your desire or in your imagination or projection that you can truly love them; otherwise it is not the person that you love but the idea that you have formed of this person, or this person as the object of your desire not as he or she is in themselves.
The first act of love is to see this person or this object, this reality as it truly is. And this involves the enormous discipline of dropping your desires, your prejudices, your memories, your projections, your selective way of looking ...a discipline so great that most people would rather plunge headlong into good actions and service than submit to the burning fire of this asceticism. When you set out to serve someone whom you have not taken the trouble to see, are you meeting that person's need or your own?"
____
"You see persons and things not as they are but as you are. If you wish to see them as they are you must attend to your attachments and the fears that your attachments generate. Because when you look at life it is these attachments and fears that will decide what you will notice and what you block out. Whatever you notice then commands your attention. And since your looking has been selective you have an illusory version of the things and people around you. The more you live with this distorted version the more you become convinced that it is the only true picture of the world because your attachments and fears continue to process incoming data in a way that will reinforce your picture."
from The Way to Love--- Father Anthony de Mello
...and how it arises in the human heart. It is so frequently equated with good feelings toward others, with benevolence or nonviolence or service. But these things in themselves are not love. Love springs from awareness. It is only inasmuch as you see someone as he or she is really here, and not how they are in your memory or your desire or in your imagination or projection that you can truly love them; otherwise it is not the person that you love but the idea that you have formed of this person, or this person as the object of your desire not as he or she is in themselves.
The first act of love is to see this person or this object, this reality as it truly is. And this involves the enormous discipline of dropping your desires, your prejudices, your memories, your projections, your selective way of looking ...a discipline so great that most people would rather plunge headlong into good actions and service than submit to the burning fire of this asceticism. When you set out to serve someone whom you have not taken the trouble to see, are you meeting that person's need or your own?"
____
"You see persons and things not as they are but as you are. If you wish to see them as they are you must attend to your attachments and the fears that your attachments generate. Because when you look at life it is these attachments and fears that will decide what you will notice and what you block out. Whatever you notice then commands your attention. And since your looking has been selective you have an illusory version of the things and people around you. The more you live with this distorted version the more you become convinced that it is the only true picture of the world because your attachments and fears continue to process incoming data in a way that will reinforce your picture."
from The Way to Love--- Father Anthony de Mello
[Q&A] How does metta sutra, how is metta, loving kindness, develop?
InChrist
Free4ever
Is that really love for another ?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Like I said, I think that part of what needs to happen is more conscious awareness of the kind of love that I’m discussing here, of its value and importance, of ways to help it grow in ourselves and others. I see more now than ever before how it intertwines with love for beauty and love of nature. There is some discussion in The Celestine Prophecies about how people drain energy from each other, and how we can get energy without draining it from others, from beauty.
I’ve been working for a long time on learning to improve myself in ways that might help improve the world for people around me and for all people everywhere, but this is a new way of looking at it for me, how it happens that people learn to love all people and all of nature, with the kind of love the world needs.
Going back to conscious awareness of the value and importance of this kind of love, and recognizing it and encouraging it in ourselves and others, I think that part of what needs to happen is people talking openly about it more, in our conversations with all of the people in our lives, including in Internet discussions, and getting ideas and encouragement about it from each other.
Going back to beauty and love, sometimes when I’m out doing errands, I look for beauty in the faces of people around me, and when I do that, I fall in love with every person I see!
I’ve been working for a long time on learning to improve myself in ways that might help improve the world for people around me and for all people everywhere, but this is a new way of looking at it for me, how it happens that people learn to love all people and all of nature, with the kind of love the world needs.
Going back to conscious awareness of the value and importance of this kind of love, and recognizing it and encouraging it in ourselves and others, I think that part of what needs to happen is people talking openly about it more, in our conversations with all of the people in our lives, including in Internet discussions, and getting ideas and encouragement about it from each other.
Going back to beauty and love, sometimes when I’m out doing errands, I look for beauty in the faces of people around me, and when I do that, I fall in love with every person I see!
I suspect we must have unconditional love (or at least compassion) for all others - much like a mother has (hopefully) for her children - even where this must override our fear, mistrust, anger, or even hatred towards those whom we would not naturally love. I also suspect this will never happen, and we will just go on as we are towards an abyss - because we are human and not developed sufficiently to do so. Blame our primate past for that! 
On the other hand, life might be just so rosy in our garden (what's left of it).
On the other hand, life might be just so rosy in our garden (what's left of it).
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Well, first off we start by reading this article.
Love is Not Enough
The 1960s generated alot of sentiment of "lurve" I'd like to call it since it's often either outright lust, I love you (because I have to), or alot of posing in general. Let's all save the whales! Great... meanwhile, how are you treating your brother who like your dad and mom are very conservative and live in the country? What's that? You cut all ties with them after the Trump election?
Let's try something different.
One, we're gonna try self-acceptance. I am said brother. I'm conservative. I'm also in the LGBT spectrum (making me kinda like a Log Cabin type only for trans, I get told the worst slurs actually by liberals because I don't fit into a neat ideological box). As a trans person who saw clearly how the left acted in response to the Pulse nightclub shooting, I turned my back on them. I also started turning my back on the notion that conservatives are all transphobic after being in a small town and being accepted. I also learned that rather than the "no such thing" reaction when I told liberals I was conservative and trans, I can love myself and it's actually the first step of loving others as yourself. When you manage this, everything seems to get better.
Two, we're gonna need honesty. More important than love (sorry "lurve") is to be a good friend to others and sometimes good friends tell each other hard truths, like "the left is bribing ppl with free self-phones and free college, but there is very little actually free to this, both in the end of year tax price tag, and the loss of many of the Bill of Right protections, like my right to be armed, or speak only without being banned or censored. You should also ask many of these special interest types if they like the backlash from all their civil rights groups preventing them from having a normal time of it (that is, because my group is hitting ppl up for $250k for misgendering, I get more mistrust, and many ppl have more trouble securing a real job) and often ending up on welfare instead." And I'm gonna try to tell you when you're being hysterical , or not using good logic. I'm also gonna have to ask you to seriously try to argue with me, and tell me your concerns. Honesty is the antidote to all this censorship, and also the first step to mending things.
Lastly, we need faith. The secular system of the 60s created a bunch of rootless and broken people who keep engaging in meaningless relationships. When we say faith, it doesn't mean belief. It means faithfulness. The willingness to have integrity. The ability to stay true to people and places. To actually try not to have fufteen partners and get STDs but stay with one person even if there's nothing in it for you sexually. To actually talk to people and try to stand by them. And to take responsibility when your decisions turn out to suck. I see alot of Muslims refugeeing to other countries because things are terrible there. No. You need to stay in Pakistan or Syria or Ethiopia, and be the change the country needs. You need to be a good husband, not some guy who heads to Europe leaving his wife behind (actually a thing in Syria). And for liberals in US, who move to Texas or Virginia or Florida because the taxes suddenly got high, you need to suck it up and be faithful to your state's vision, or you need to admit that big government doesn't work. Your choice, but coming here is bringing your problems with you. Either accept things or change them, but you don't have to live like a refugee.
Lastly, we need to understand that real love is not pretending to be happy all the time. It's a marriage to God. And when you're married to God, expect to sometimes have squabbles. But God wants the real us, not someone who seems happy but has checked out.
Shakazuluuuuu
Deist I guess what that is
Goodman John
Active Member
Reject Satan and his works. Develop a healthy contempt for material things (you can be IN the world but not be OF it) and strive to live a good life free of illusions and attachments to worldly things. The philosophy of the Stoics is a good resource. If you think you have done something wrong, confess your failing and do penance. Be kind to one another and realize that while we are all different outwardly, within each of us is a spark of the divine and it is our duty to help others nurture that soul and loosen the evil grip of this world.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I’m still hoping to see more ideas from more people, about this question:
“How does it happen that people learn to love all people and all of nature, with the kind of love that the world needs? How does that learning happen?”
I’ll post some of my thoughts about it.
In Biblical terms, it’s a gift from God, and it happens by His grace. Considering it that way, maybe anyone who wants to can help by learning more and more to be a channel of His grace. I might post some more thoughts about that later. For now I’ll just point to the sermon on the mount, and what Paul says about the fruits of the spirit.
In non theistic terms, one way I think of it is learning more and more to value all people everywhere, and all of nature, and to care what happens to them. Anyone who wants to can help by continual conscious efforts to improve their own character and conduct, with the aim and purpose of improving the world for people around them, and for all people everywhere.
Random thoughts:
- Learn to be a better friend to more people.
- Learn to use storytelling to inspire people to improve themselves in ways that help improve improve the world for all people everywhere.
- Help with the growth and spread of healthier, happier and more loving communities, at the level of neighborhoods and villages, all around the world.
- We can fill ourselves with love and joy by looking for beauty in everything around us, and spread that love and joy all around us, in everything we do, everywhere all the time.
- Distance ourselves as far as possible from all campaigns of denunciation and intimidation.
- Naysaying, and stabs and jabs: Just ignore them.
- Learn not to think of people in terms of groups and categories, including groups and categories defined by what they believe and don’t believe.
- All of this can be practiced here and now by anyone, and is being practiced sometimes, in these forums, and that will make a difference in the world around us.
- Bringing all this up for discussion sometimes might help encourage people to do it more.
“How does it happen that people learn to love all people and all of nature, with the kind of love that the world needs? How does that learning happen?”
I’ll post some of my thoughts about it.
In Biblical terms, it’s a gift from God, and it happens by His grace. Considering it that way, maybe anyone who wants to can help by learning more and more to be a channel of His grace. I might post some more thoughts about that later. For now I’ll just point to the sermon on the mount, and what Paul says about the fruits of the spirit.
In non theistic terms, one way I think of it is learning more and more to value all people everywhere, and all of nature, and to care what happens to them. Anyone who wants to can help by continual conscious efforts to improve their own character and conduct, with the aim and purpose of improving the world for people around them, and for all people everywhere.
Random thoughts:
- Learn to be a better friend to more people.
- Learn to use storytelling to inspire people to improve themselves in ways that help improve improve the world for all people everywhere.
- Help with the growth and spread of healthier, happier and more loving communities, at the level of neighborhoods and villages, all around the world.
- We can fill ourselves with love and joy by looking for beauty in everything around us, and spread that love and joy all around us, in everything we do, everywhere all the time.
- Distance ourselves as far as possible from all campaigns of denunciation and intimidation.
- Naysaying, and stabs and jabs: Just ignore them.
- Learn not to think of people in terms of groups and categories, including groups and categories defined by what they believe and don’t believe.
- All of this can be practiced here and now by anyone, and is being practiced sometimes, in these forums, and that will make a difference in the world around us.
- Bringing all this up for discussion sometimes might help encourage people to do it more.
Screw love. The world needs wisdom and justice.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
I agree! That needed to be said here, now. Thank you.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Especially now, I think, in the face of growing and spreading folly oppression, violence and vandalism, under banners of “diversity” and “social justice.”