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HOW MANY SONS DOES GOD HAVE??

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by best friend, Apr 4, 2004.

  1. best friend

    best friend New Member

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  2. Rex

    Rex Founder

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    I won't tell
    Whoa that is come crazy stuff there.


    I think I am going to read it again!
     
  3. Master Hoomer

    Master Hoomer Member

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    um you do realise this is islamic propoganda?
     
  4. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    So we should disregard it because it is one religion's view of another?
     
  5. Master Hoomer

    Master Hoomer Member

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    So we should disregard it because it is one religion's view of another?

    um no....

    ok fair cop i'm probably wrong...it reads like propoganda to me....

    ie cemversion

    each to their own...sorry
     
  6. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    from what I learned way back when I was a christian. Jesus was not god. Nothing of his that I have read points to his wanting to be worshiped.
    He wanted the worship to stay with his 'father'. I think if he ever does show back up, he'd end up being a bit dissapointed.

    I will say the article does a good job pointing out the cultural uses of phrases. Its something that is often forgotten.
    besides, all organized religon is propaganda. :roll:

    wa:-do
     
  7. Death

    Death Member

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    No, we should disregard it because it's in the wrong forum.

    Besides, the quran says Allah can have a son. check out Surah 39:4

    Which doesn't say he did, just that he can.
     
  8. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... if it uses Bible quotations to indicate all the firstborn sons of God... then it belongs in the Christian forum despite being an article by a Muslim. However, I will take a look at the article again and decide. If it does not belong, I will simply move it.
     
  9. Colin_Admin

    Colin_Admin Member

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    I am one of Gods son's.
     
  10. The Ocelot

    The Ocelot Member

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    Yes, and that is why it has no credibility. First of all, they know what God means. But any way they can they will try to distort it. You know what Satan will try to do. There is no evidence that these books like "Barnabas", "Mary", or "Peter" were written by these people themselves. Bibles do not include them because they contain propoganda like this. For all we know, a Muslim could have written them.

    Don't believe everything you see.

    The Ocelot
     
  11. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    The really surprising thing about the article is that people speaking Arabic should know better than making such interpretations. In Semitic languages, kinship words often have a very wide meaning. Uses like a rich man is a "father of wealth", "the children of Israel" meaning the people of Israel, "the mother of the country" = the capital are very common.

    As propaganda, it is rather tame and courteous compared to much of the stuff that comes from other religions.

    And please note, that following every mentioning of the name of Jesus, the text has the pious text in brackets "peace be upon him".

    As to author names, the only thing we can be rather certain about in the Bible is, that most books and letters were not written by the people to whom they are attributed.

    Regarding the books you mentioned, Ocelot, the Barnabas letter was probably written around 130 CE. You cannot speak of Muslims before 610 CE. The Gospel of Peter is about 100 CE. I have found no date for the Gospel of Mary of Magdala, but, being clearly gnostic, it belongs to that same period. So, it is proven that they were not written by Muslims.

    And, dear Ocelot, I am more than four times your age, so please do not try to sound like a schoolteacher.
     
  12. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely with this. And we are all sons and daughters of God.
     
  13. headhunter

    headhunter New Member

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    Yes, and Jesus is our *elder* brother.
     
  14. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

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    [color=#] [/color]

    Would anyone possibly possess insight into the original Greek that the NT references stem from and if it carried the same connotation as the numerous OT references previously cited? This may be a dead end I don't know, as I am no linguistics expert...
     
  15. Rudy

    Rudy New Member

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    I thought that we are all sons and daughters of God. :angel:
     
  16. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    Hirohito,

    My Latin is poor and my Greek worse. That does not mean too much, because in all probability, the people concerned spoke Aramaic. That means that independently of the Greek being tékna (children) as in 1 John, or huios (son) as in Romans 8, it would have the same connotations as in Aramaic. That in turn means that to interpret the words as meaning child or son in the human world of flesh, or figuratively as, for example, belonging to or connected to (a very normal thing in Semitic languages: "the children of Israel" is the Israelitic people), you would have to look very carefully at the whole setting of the passage where the word is used, and yet you may arrive at different interpretations, depending on whether you are a believer or not. Interpreting the Bible is not just one, but many sciences (or arts).
     
  17. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

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    To Anders

    In the article the author refered to the 'Book of Barnabas', Which is in all likelihood a medieval forgery. Among other things it fortells the coming of the prophet Mohammed.

    I Got them mixed up.
     
  18. dudley thoth

    dudley thoth Member

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    You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ...when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." (Galatians 3:26-28; 4:4-6 N.I.V)

    Those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. ...The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. (Romans 8:14, 16 N.I.V)

    "and I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6:18 N.I.V)


    Jesus the Son of God

    "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased" (matthew 3:17 N.I.V)

    See also: Matt 4:3, 6; Luke 1:32; Matt 11:27; Matt 14:33; Mark 9:7; Mark 14: 61; Mark 13:32; 15:39; Matthew 16:16; 24:36; 27:40, 54; 28:19.

    The Son of Man (In O.T)

    In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. (Daniel 7:13-14 N.I.V)

    Jesus both human and divine

    ...Regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God, by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:3-4 N.I.V)
     
  19. hawkfum

    hawkfum New Member

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    Not being from your planet and therefore not being influenced by emotional entanglements or preconceptions I find the following to be the most logical explanation.
    God has one Son but millions of sons!
    The Bible speaks of only one Archangel, Michael, it is he that God spoke too when he said "let US make man in our own image".
    Michael was the first creation by God and the only thing he created by his own hands (so to speak) everything else in existance was created for God by Michael using his fathers power, so while all the other ranks of angels are sons of God they are not the Son, ie the creation of his own hands.
    I feel the evidence for this is overwhelming, if logic is your tool of choice I dont see how any other conclusion can be reached.
    Obviously this kicks the doctrine of the trinity into touch cos the evidence also suggests that it was Michael who forsook his heavenly spirit existence to take human form and become the man who was Jesus Christ.
    Try this piece of logic.
    Satan approached Jesus in the wilderness and offered him all the kingdoms of the world for one act of worship, do we really think Satan is so stupid and naive to think he could tempt God, even one third of him?
    I find the idea laughable, the only explanation is that Satan knew who and what Jesus was in his spiritual existence, he attempted this because success would have meant victory, why?
    Satans argument goes something like this.
    Why should we worship God?, why shouldnt we worship him?
    A good question and one that had to be answered, It was Satans belief that he could turn any human away from worshiping God a belief given a certain amount of creedence given Adams capitulation.
    As the sacrifice for Adams sin Jesus had to be a perfect life in behalf of a perfect life anything less would have been worthless hence Satans attempt to tempt him away from his path, if he could tempt Gods Son his arguement would have been one and presumably God would have had to abdicate.
    Read between the lines here because logic also reveals much about Gods character. He didnt say "Hey boy watch what your Daddy can do" and simply show off he gave the pleasure of creating to his Son, He didnt simply nuke Satan for his audacity he gave him time to prove his point, time which is almost over and furthermore consider this.
    We talk about faith in God but what about Gods faith in man?
    He has given us the power to judge him inasmuch as we will decide the outcome of this struggle, yes Satan has done a sterling job of turning us away from the truth setting up countless faiths and religions to confuse and mislead, how would you recognise them?
    Let Jesus tell you
    By their fruits you will know them inasmuch as they have love amongst themselves, while Catholics kill Catholics, Protastants kill Protastants, Muslims kill Muslims, Buddists Buddists and Hindis kill Hindies Gods people would not practice war atall, look for a people like that and ask them the answer to the other questions you may have.
    Your planet is safe in the creators hands.
    Love and respect
    Hawkfum
     
  20. Hirohito18200

    Hirohito18200 Member

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    Hey, I have an idea!

    Lets just start a forum on the identity of Jesus. Everyone seems to be arguing it on different posts, so lets just put it in the debate forum and let every one swing away.

    O ya hawk, that was some interesting stuff u put on that last post, I look forward to researching it some more.
     
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