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How many sins before it is too late?

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I never said the word "seed" meant the very same thing throughout the whole Bible. I am saying that in (Luke 8:11) and (1Peter 1:23) the word "seed" is referring to the word of God spiritually. Each text says that very thing.
It is important to pay attention to the prepositions "of" and "by" in 1 Peter 1:23. Prepositions are small words with a big meaning. We are born again "of" incorruptible seed "by" the Word of God.

Remember, every word in the scriptures has been purified 7 times and it behooves us as workmen of the Word to pay close attention to each word, including the little ones. We must let the scriptures speak for themselves without interjecting extraneous ideas into them.

I'm sorry for you in that you really don't know if you will be in paradise with God and Jesus. It can't be a good feeling to have any doubt as to the effectiveness of Jesus' work on your behalf. I don't see how you can truly see yourself as more than a conqueror (Rom 8:37) when you presumably think you may end up in a lake of fire for the sins you apparently think Jesus did not cover. You should come over to the sunny side of life. Enjoy your complete salvation and walk like a child of God, knowing that He, the perfect Father, has your back regardless of the stupid things your flesh (your dead flesh to be precise) may or may not do.

Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
God bless
 

Nova2216

Active Member
I'm sorry for you in that you really don't know if you will be in paradise with God and Jesus. It can't be a good feeling to have any doubt as to the effectiveness of Jesus' work on your behalf.
God bless

You are assuming I do not know that I am saved.

Just as you assume the saved on cannot be lost eternally.

(1Jn 2:3-6) says - 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



Question - Have you addressed (2Peter 2:20-22) or (Luke 15)?

(2Peter 2:20-22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


(Luke 15)

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?


8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?


11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
Notice also that the rich man was a Jew (a child of God) (Luke 16:19-31) but he ended up in torment (lost). This harmonizes with the text in (2Peter 2) and (Luke 15) and (Heb.10:26-31).
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
You are assuming I do not know that I am saved
I didn't mean to insinuate your are not born again. I assume you are from your posts. When I suggested you come to the sunny side of life, I meant the side of life where we are assured that Jesus will finish the job he began.

1 Cor 1:8,

Who (Jesus, from verse 7) shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the one who confirms us and keeps us blameless. We don't do it ourselves.

Just as you assume the saved on cannot be lost eternally.
Yes, I do assume incorruptible seed means incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23), that Jesus preserving us blameless means we are preserved blameless (1 Corinthians 1:8), that being sealed unto the day of redemption means we are sealed unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22).

Rom 8:15,

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
We in the modern West think that an adopted child is something less than a born child but that was not the case in the Roman Empire when the scriptures were written. They felt that a parent had no choice in a natural born child but they did have a choice in a child whom they adopted. The adopted child had more rights than the natural born child, including the fact that an adopted child could not be disowned like a natural born child. How the Roman practice of adoption sheds light on what St. Paul was talking about

(1Jn 2:3-6) says - 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

All very true, but where does it suggest we can loose our sonship? You should have quoted the next three verses to get the true message of this section. They say that if we say we don't sin we make him a liar. So it is clear that we will sin after the new birth. As I said before, God does not give us an "improved" flesh. Instead He created a new creature within us. That is a result of that incorruptible seed, and as I've also said, an incorruptible seed would only produce and incorruptible offspring, in this case it would be Christ in you (Col 1;27). That is where your salvation began, and as Galatians 3:1-3 says, that is where you will be made perfect. But I digress. Getting back to 1 John, we are told we will sin and we are also told what to do about it. It doesn't tell us to beat our flesh into submission and vow never to commit that sin ever again. Instead it says we are to confess, to admit, to God that we sinned. That's all we do. His part is to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. How long should that take? A few seconds, and no more.

I know too many Christians who spend most of their time in self condemnation, feeling unworthy because of their actions. There is no other way or putting it than to say they really don't believe 1 John, Galatians, and many other verses. They really don't believe Jesus saved them and made them worthy. Unfortunately, they must fee they have to finish the work Jesus apparently was not able to finish.

If you really knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that you have an incorruptible inheritance reserved for you in heaven I have no doubt your walk would be filled with more joy than hoping you are worthy when he returns.

I've asked you how many sins you get before it's too late. You gave a somewhat vague answer. The scriptures are not as vague. They say that if you you tell one little white lie, you have broken the entire law, thus making you unworthy to enter paradise. If you are going to follow the law, you must do so under the standards given in Galatians.

Gal 5:1-3,

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Question - Have you addressed (2Peter 2:20-22) or (Luke 15)?

(2Peter 2:20-22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Not yet, but here goes

Who is the "they" in verse 20? Read the whole chapter and it becomes obvious that they are not born again Christians. They may have heard of Jesus, but instead of accepting him as their savior, they thought they could take advantage of those who had.

(Luke 15)

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Old Testament, written, not to the church, but to Jews before the new birth of incorruptible seed was available.

God bless.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
I didn't mean to insinuate your are not born again. I assume you are from your posts. When I suggested you come to the sunny side of life, I meant the side of life where we are assured that Jesus will finish the job he began.

1 Cor 1:8,

Who (Jesus, from verse 7) shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the one who confirms us and keeps us blameless. We don't do it ourselves.



God bless.


If Jesus done it all upon the cross then you do not need to believe.


Please notice -

Belief is a work according to (Jn 6:28).

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe




How many sins did Simon commit in (Acts 8:12-22)?

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.


That is about as clear as I can be.

I was not vague.


If Simon was not saved then neither was the Samaritans.

Simon done what the Samaritans did (Acts 8:5,12).

5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.


Was the Samaritans saved?



Thanks

.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
This was wrote to Christians (the saved).

(Gal. 5:19-21) - 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

(1Cor. 6:9-11) - 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


If we learn from the OT principles and we do according to (Rom.15:4), what does (Num. 14:12) teach us?


12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.


The OT text still teach us about how God deals with men (Rom.15:4).


4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,...

 

Nova2216

Active Member
Who is the "they" in verse 20? Read the whole chapter and it becomes obvious that they are not born again Christians. They may have heard of Jesus, but instead of accepting him as their savior, they thought they could take advantage of those who had.
God bless.

The "they" in (2Peter 2:20-22) must be Christians who else would have escaped the pollutions of the world?

There is not but two categories?

1. The World (of sin)
2. Christianity (sanctified / cleansed of sin)

A person is either in one category or the other.

There is no other choice spiritually speaking.


Now, who is the "they" in (2Peter 2:20-22)?

Saved
or
Unsaved


Thanks
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
The "they" in (2Peter 2:20-22) must be Christians who else would have escaped the pollutions of the world?

There is not but two categories?

1. The World (of sin)
2. Christianity (sanctified / cleansed of sin)

A person is either in one category or the other.

There is no other choice spiritually speaking.

Now, who is the "they" in (2Peter 2:20-22)?

Saved
or
Unsaved

Thanks
I think I've mentioned the fact that I believe the scriptures can not contradict themselves. I think all the verses I've quoted on the subject are clear in that we are born again of incorruptible seed, have an inheritance reserved for us, are kept by the power of God, and others indicate the new birth is permanent.

If Peter says we can loose our salvation, somehow un-son ourselves from God, then what do we do with the verses that seem to say otherwise?

All the scriptures must fit together. Sometimes it's a matter of weighing many clear verses on a subject against a few unclear verses that seem to say something different. We must also consider the overall context, the overall message of scripture. Jesus came to solve the sin and death problem that Adam caused (Rom 5:12).

We commit sins because we have a sin nature that dwells in our flesh. Jesus took care of the nature, not the results of the nature, i.e. the sins we commit. Jesus did nothing to make our flesh any better than it was before our new birth. The scriptures actually say our flesh was crucified with him and is still dead. That is how Jesus solved the sin problem. He took away the vehicle, our flesh, by which we commit sins.

We must also consider God's point of view vs. our own. God does not see us the same way we see ourselves. We see our flesh but God sees the new creation, His perfect creation that He created within us. That is a result of the incorruptible seed.

Regarding Peter, I don't think it is crystal clear they were actually born again. I'm not 100% sure of what it says. It does indeed say they had escaped the pollution of the world, but I can't say for sure it meant they were saved. Also, it definitely does not say they lost salvation if they had it. It simply says their state has worsened. That is not hard to understand. A Christian will definitely lead a better life in the here and now if they remain faithful, but that doesn't mean they loose their salvation if they don't. It just means they will not enjoy the fullness of the fellowship they can have with God if they remain faithful.

We all have a standing and a state with our parents, both natural and God. Our standing is that of a son and that can not change. Seed is seed. It can't be undone. However, our state, or end as I think Peter may put it, is variable. We can be in fellowship with God, or we can fall out of fellowship. In either case we still have seed, our inheritance, etc.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
What did Paul mean in (1Cor. 9:27)?

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

If the Lord took away Paul's "sin nature" (as you call it) why is he having such a difficult time living for the Lord.

He is running
He is striving
He is fighting
He is bringing his body into subjection

What if Paul stops doing these things?

What spiritual shape would he be in then?

 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Muffles if he has only the power to save the willing and cannot help the unwilling then his power is rather limited and certainly not absolute power at all. If what your saying is correct than we are dealing with a God who is partially impotent. A God who cannot render life to both if he so chooses. I do like the strong virile God who is able to give life to whomever he pleases.

I believe He can do it and will but it is not His will to force anyone to do His will.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Rev 20:15,

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I think that this verse shows that only those not found in the book of life will be destroyed. This judgment is not for Christians since we have already been judged and found righteous by the work of Jesus. This judgment is for all people who lived for all time. It would include those who never heard of Jesus. Jesus will be doing the judging and he will do it according to what God tells him, i.e. he will judge righteous judgment. Jesus will consider the hearts, the inner person, when he judges. I might be going our on a limb here, but I would suggest that most people are pretty decent folks and thus paradise will have it's share of non-Christians who Jesus judged worth to be written in the book of life.

I believe that negates the first statement. I have lived for all time and will not have to face this judgment.

I don't believe there will be such a person.

I believe there are no decent people and only those who are saved by Jesus are found written in the book of life. I believe one might contend that there are non-Christians now who will be Christians in the future but without Jesus there is no life and one can't be found written in the book of it.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I believe that negates the first statement. I have lived for all time and will not have to face this judgment.

I don't believe there will be such a person.

I believe there are no decent people and only those who are saved by Jesus are found written in the book of life. I believe one might contend that there are non-Christians now who will be Christians in the future but without Jesus there is no life and one can't be found written in the book of it.
If that is true, it's too bad for Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. since they weren't able to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead to be saved as per Romans 10:9-10.
 

Prim969

Member
I believe He can do it and will but it is not His will to force anyone to do His will.
You believe He can and will.do. Ok. But at the same time you say it is not His will to force anyone to do His will. But is that really what Gods Holy word does say? In the Exodus account ( Exodus 14:4 ) we do find that God chooses to harden Pharaohs heart again after the 10 plagues and to continue to pursue the children of Israel and search them out via the Red Sea. In Acts chapter 9 we do find on the road to Damascus that God did change the heart of the Christ hating Saul into a Christ loving Paul at a moments notice. Muffles perhaps you do belong to the children of a lesser god I do not know. But my God is all powerful in all things even unto those who do not desire Him. And that meaning probably all of us with what we inherited from the fall.
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
As Above, So Below.

God historically as stone mass....the body from which science takes from to build a machine, was once hot alight burning gases. Humans say that gases burning light is why they live....to own light. Yet gases not burning and being cold and clear own the balances.

God the stone body owns historically both those gases.

Stone first owns the night time cold clear non burning gases.....historically.

So if science decides to remove the face of God and mine it....he claims in science it is mine, by the mine. Hence we claim that human status is his greed.

Unnatural want for his artificial inventing...that not only invented machines he then had to give it a power source....so took from the God body twice.

Now he says he needs to create new energy for his machine.....not for his life continuance but for the continuance of machine reactions.

Science then says to science, go and look for a new Planet to live on. And only science can tell science that science is wrong.

It is proven that the mass of stone can be removed and no longer exist in fusion or history of cold radiation held mass. Which would equal the disappearance and use of cold UFO radiation mass bodies also...that once used to exist and held frozen.

Science removes mass in 2 places....on Earth and in space.

If he proves his mind is concerned, it is by how he questions his brothers with information that has come aware in his own human male psyche.

How science says to science, science I think you are wrong. Historically science was always wrong...for it never needed to be invented, it was chosen to be invented. Invention and history could have been very different in natural life support and need for natural to exist.

Science says as its status there is no need for natural to exist and constantly remove natural fused mass history both in the physical form of Planet/God and spatial.

The answer to his question relative to his male self....when is enough change enough notified destruction for a human who believes in destroying?

His answer is always when he gets destroyed....for mentally it is never enough.

Therefore he said C 100 was a holy self value....he owned life living on Earth for 100 years.

A male said stone was ST one.
A male said AIN was cold zero space owning the stone tombs of the gases.

S AIN T.

Says ANTI is against Christ existing as our heavenly mass.

So actually when he has heated up enough cold spatial radiation and removed its physical presence then he would ANTI our atmosphere from existing.

S is the value 19
Revelation 19 - NIV Bible - After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a...

18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army

The reason a human would be worried is that science began causing minus 1 in the nuclear condition...or going backwards to Sun Time...nuclear burning light.

God in the stone as below is cold gas mass to be stone.

Males in theories today say I want God by mass de materialized, so energy will moe through the walls of the Earth into my machine. Yet his machine string theory owns volcanic molten metal...for he unnaturally manipulated its cooling.

It is this sort of male mentality that spiritual males in the aware psyche are warned about....so ask questions of scientific relativity in that question.

The history of JESUS on Earth....says as we go back in time shifting by nuclear mass converting, the first Jesus we come upon historically was the Shroud of Turin victim...which was historically after the Jesus 33AD death....not the Shroud case.

The Shroud victimization was when the Holy War was fought to stop pyramid/temple technology trans mutation or stone melting.

For the first Jesus sacrificed life was stone fission/particle removal of sin, ground mass....then years after the ground melting incident.

So as we move/shift Earth back in time, we will eventually meet up with the Shroud of Turin victimization...as SIN removal, x mass of GOD.

As above, so below. Relativity about causes.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If that is true, it's too bad for Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. since they weren't able to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead to be saved as per Romans 10:9-10.

I believe through re-incarnation they did have that opportunity.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You believe He can and will.do. Ok. But at the same time you say it is not His will to force anyone to do His will. But is that really what Gods Holy word does say? In the Exodus account ( Exodus 14:4 ) we do find that God chooses to harden Pharaohs heart again after the 10 plagues and to continue to pursue the children of Israel and search them out via the Red Sea. In Acts chapter 9 we do find on the road to Damascus that God did change the heart of the Christ hating Saul into a Christ loving Paul at a moments notice. Muffles perhaps you do belong to the children of a lesser god I do not know. But my God is all powerful in all things even unto those who do not desire Him. And that meaning probably all of us with what we inherited from the fall.

I believe those are not examples of suppression of will but rather influence on the person's thinking. The Devil also does that but if ones will is solidly set on God it can't be influenced by the devil.
 

Prim969

Member
I believe those are not examples of suppression of will but rather influence on the person's thinking. The Devil also does that but if ones will is solidly set on God it can't be influenced by the devil.
You say we have the Will power that can enable us to solidly set a relationship with God. Really? Such verses as ( While we were yet sinners ) ( I have come to set the captive free ) do come to mind and say the opposite when it comes to our redemption . Certainly no mention of humanity’s triumph of the will in those passages. Muffles does remind me very much of Leni Riefenstahl’s production ( the triumph of the will ) Sadly Will power alone was not enough to win the day. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God don’t you think. Where does that leave us with the will power within us you have mentioned in being able to connect with.God ?
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
You say we have the Will power that can enable us to solidly set a relationship with God. Really? Such verses as ( While we were yet sinners ) ( I have come to set the captive free ) do come to mind and say the opposite when it comes to our redemption . Certainly no mention of humanity’s triumph of the will in those passages. Muffles does remind me very much of Leni Riefenstahl’s production ( the triumph of the will ) Sadly Will power alone was not enough to win the day. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God don’t you think. Where does that leave us with the will power within us you have mentioned in being able to connect with.God ?

I believe you are confusing will with willpower. Having the will does not necessarily mean we have the power. However there is a saying: Where there is a will there is a way. Fortunately Jesus is the Way.
 

Prim969

Member
I believe you are confusing will with willpower. Having the will does not necessarily mean we have the power. However there is a saying: Where there is a will there is a way. Fortunately Jesus is the Way.
You say where there is a will there is a way. I do say no matter how much will or will power ( sometimes you can’t make it on your own ) Muffles what is the difference between will and will power?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Any idea on how mainstream Christianity sees 1 Peter 1:23? Of course, if you don't have the patience to answer, I understand.

Take care
It means that we have been awakened to the reality of eternal life.
 
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