Valjean I’m sure the lord knew the meaning of ( I’m done for ) well enough, long before the appointed time. But was he really referring to that when he said ( it is finished ) You might like to reflect apon John 10:18 ( No man taketh it from me but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again ) As to your mention of ( sometimes a cigar is just a cigar ) I don’t smoke so I not know. But I do like the aroma of the cigar.
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How many sins before it is too late?
- Thread starter rrobs
- Start date
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Not a good assumption at all. First of all, I asked you what you meant by abiding. That is a strong indication I didn't understand what you meant and therefore I wouldn't have known how to answer your question. It has nothing to do with me or God condemning myself. I do not know I'm condemned.
1Cor 4:3-4,
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
As a born again son of God, I am not condemned or justified by what I do. I am justified by what Jesus did. Stop jumping to conclusions.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
#1) You didn't reply regarding how we must be born again of water and of the Spirit.
#2) Or, on the fact that if we don't have his Spirit we are none of his.
#3) Explain how someone can be the temple of the Holy Spirit if they don't even have his Spirit. 1 Corinthians 6:19 and 1 Corinthians 3:16
#4) You said there is a difference between the gift of the Holy Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit.
... and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38-39
... on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 10:45-47 (Note verse 47 - says these which have received the Holy Spirit)
#5) You say the Apostles had to lay hands on them for them to receive the Holy Spirit. What about Acts 2:1-4 (no laying on of hands mentioned) and Acts 10:44-48 and Acts 11:13-7 (Peter was just preaching). Sometimes the Apostles did lay hands on someone - but sometimes they didn't.
#6) There is a difference between receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit and having some of the various spiritual gifts. But the Holy Spirit is a gift in and of itself that we receive. (As shown in some of the verses referenced above.) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body (the church/his bride),whether Jews or Gentiles... and have been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13
#7) Paul wouldn't have told us to desire spiritual gifts, and to forbid not to speak with tongues, etc., if it was all done away with. 1 Corinthians 14:
Now for Your Question: One is filled with the Holy Spirit just like they were on the day of Pentecost - with the evidence of speaking in tongues. (Most will never speak in tongues again - unless they receive the gift of tongues.)
Nova2216
Active Member
I know two things.
#1. One must obey the gospel to be saved (Ac.2:40) (2Thess.1:7-9) (Mark 16:15,16)(Mt.7:21).
#2. Those saved can so sin to be lost b/c of what I read in (1Jn 1:6-9).
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
"We" refers to the saved (vs6)
"walk in darkness" refers to a sinful lifestyle (vs 6)
"Do not the truth" refers to sinful lifestyle (rejecting truth) (vs 6) (Jn 12:48).
But "If" (upon the condition that) we walk in the light (do right) we have a relationship with Christ and our brethren and our sins are cleansed.
Notice our relationship with Christ is conditional based upon our lifestyle.
Doctrine and the correct doctrine is important according to (vs 8) (1Cor.1:10) (1Tim.4:1-3)(2Tim.4:1-4) (1Tim.1:3).
"If" (upon the condition that) one saved will "confess" his sins he can be forgiven and will not be lost (vs 9)
One must "do truth" to be saved (Jn 3:19-21) (Mt.7:21) (1Jn 2:3,4).
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (Jn 3:19)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1Jn 2:3,4)
we know him, if we keep his commandments
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
the truth is not in him.
whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
How do we know we are saved? (1Jn 2:3,-6)
If we do truth (obey the gospel). (Jn 3:19-21)
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mk 16:15,16)
Thanks
#1. One must obey the gospel to be saved (Ac.2:40) (2Thess.1:7-9) (Mark 16:15,16)(Mt.7:21).
#2. Those saved can so sin to be lost b/c of what I read in (1Jn 1:6-9).
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
"We" refers to the saved (vs6)
"walk in darkness" refers to a sinful lifestyle (vs 6)
"Do not the truth" refers to sinful lifestyle (rejecting truth) (vs 6) (Jn 12:48).
But "If" (upon the condition that) we walk in the light (do right) we have a relationship with Christ and our brethren and our sins are cleansed.
Notice our relationship with Christ is conditional based upon our lifestyle.
Doctrine and the correct doctrine is important according to (vs 8) (1Cor.1:10) (1Tim.4:1-3)(2Tim.4:1-4) (1Tim.1:3).
"If" (upon the condition that) one saved will "confess" his sins he can be forgiven and will not be lost (vs 9)
One must "do truth" to be saved (Jn 3:19-21) (Mt.7:21) (1Jn 2:3,4).
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (Jn 3:19)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1Jn 2:3,4)
we know him, if we keep his commandments
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
the truth is not in him.
whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
How do we know we are saved? (1Jn 2:3,-6)
If we do truth (obey the gospel). (Jn 3:19-21)
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mk 16:15,16)
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
Simon was saved in (Ac.8:12,13).
If Simon was not saved then neither was the Samaritans in (Ac.8:5,12).
After Simon became a Christian he sinned (Ac.8:18-23).
How many sins did he commit?
At that point an inspired person (Peter) said he was going to perish and his heart was not right with God (bond of iniquity).
Here you have a bible example of a person in right standing with God being lost (Lk 15) (Lk 16:19-31). Also a warning in (1Jn 1:6-9).
What was he told to do? (1Jn 1:9)
Repent and pray for forgiveness (Ac.8:22)
That sounds like (1Jn 1:9)
See how the gospel (truth) harmonizes?
If Simon was not saved then neither was the Samaritans in (Ac.8:5,12).
After Simon became a Christian he sinned (Ac.8:18-23).
How many sins did he commit?
At that point an inspired person (Peter) said he was going to perish and his heart was not right with God (bond of iniquity).
Here you have a bible example of a person in right standing with God being lost (Lk 15) (Lk 16:19-31). Also a warning in (1Jn 1:6-9).
What was he told to do? (1Jn 1:9)
Repent and pray for forgiveness (Ac.8:22)
That sounds like (1Jn 1:9)
See how the gospel (truth) harmonizes?
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Nova2216
Active Member
Holy Spirit Does Things For Us.
I have never said we do not need the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
The point of contention is in "how" the Holy Spirit guides men today.
Today men "read" the word of God and "understand" what God wants them "to do" (Eph.3:3,4).
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...
The Holy Spirit does nothing "to men" today .
The Holy Spirit does do things "for men" today according to (Rom. 8:26).
...the Spirit itself maketh intercession "for us" with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
(Jn 3:5) - 5. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(1Cor.12:13) - 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
The verses above are similar in meaning.
When one is baptized (in water) he does it according to the instructions of the Holy Spirit.
(Heb.10:8) will help us understand this.
Sacrifices were "offered by the law".
I know of no one who will contend that "the law" laid hold on a sacrifice and offered it over a fire. Instead the people sacrificed according to the instructions of the OT Law.
Nadab and Abihu learned the hard way the Lord meant for His instructions to be followed strictly (Lev.10:1-3). They departed from His instructions and were killed right in front of their families during worship.
Friends, doctrine is so very important. (1Tim.4:1-4) (2Tim.4:1-4) (1Cor.1:10).
(1Tim.1:3) - ...teach no other doctrine,
Examples of conversions -
(Ac.2:36-42) (Ac.8:5,12, 35-40) (Ac.22:16) (Mark 16:16).
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
The Holy Spirit baptism was never a command for all men.
Are you aware that the "PROMISE" of the Holy Spirit only happened twice in the NT?
#1. (Ac.2:1-4) - The Jews on Pentecost
#2. (Ac 10:44) - The Gentiles (some 15 -20yrs later aprox.)
That makes up the "all flesh" Joel spoke of in (Joel 2:28) (Ac.2:16,17).:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:.
Jesus "promised" the Holy Spirit only to the apostles (Jn 14:26).
(John 14/15/16) is a discussion between Jesus and the apostles alone (not all mankind). People today read these chapters and think they Lord told them they will receive the Holy Spirit in the same manner. - Not so!
Those in (Ac.8:5-19) were baptized but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. Peter and John had to come to Samaria and "lay hands upon the people" to depart the Holy Spirit (gifts). It is only by the laying on of the 12 original apostles hands that the gifts could be passed on to others (Ac.8:18,19) (Ac.19:1-6). Others did receive the gifts from the apostles but they could not pass the gifts to other people.
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
How do we know we have a relationship with the Lord?
(1Jn 2:3-6)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Interesting passage.
(Jn 3:19-21) ...21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Thanks
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
So much of what you say is just not true. Paul received the Holy Spirit at a different time than the two you mentioned. And Peter said in Acts 2:38-39 that the promise was to as many as God would call. Even in Acts 19:2-6 we see another case of some receiving the Holy Spirit. And as I have pointed out several times, receiving the Holy Spirit is part of being born again. And it says if you don't have his Spirit you are NONE of his. And the Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance. But if you don't think you need it - well good luck with that.
Nova2216
Active Member
Possibly you are incorrect in your position and that's the problem.
***
You mentioned Paul and his having the gifts.
Please remember I posted this.
Jesus "promised" the Holy Spirit only to the apostles (Jn 14:26).
Paul was an apostle.
It is true he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at another time but that would be covered in (Jn 14:26).
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Another thing to note is that the "promise" made in (Acts 2:38,39) is not the Holy Spirit himself but rather the gift (singular) of the Holy Spirit. A gift which is given by or through the Holy Spirit.
What would that be?
If one will look at (Gen.12:3) he would find that a "promise" was made to Abraham.
What was that promise?
We see the answer in Jeremiah / Hebrews.
(Jer. 31:31-34) (Heb, 8:6-13).
I find it very interesting that "forgiveness of sins" are in fact mentioned in (Acts 2:38).
"and I will remember their sins no more".
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
We receive "the message" the Holy Spirit gives to men.
When men read the NT we can understand what men need to do to be pleasing the the Lord (1Thess.4:1-3) (Eph. 3:3,4).
When men reject "truth" they reject the Holy Spirits "message" and they also reject "Christ" (Jn 12:48) (Luke 7:28,29).
When men do that they reject the grace of God.
Grace and truth are connected together by the word of God (Jn 1:14).
...full of grace and truth.
Thanks
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
You say all you need is the word, but then you are rejecting what it says.
Without the Spirit you are none of his.
Come drink of the fountain of the water of life - which is his Holy Spirit
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TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Why are you not receiving the message the Holy Spirit has given us then?
Messages:
You must be born again - Born of the water and of the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance.
The promise of the Holy Spirit is for all our God shall call.
Without the Spirit, you are none of his.
Explain to me how someone can be the temple of the Holy Spirit, if they don't even have his Spirit in them? 1 Corinthians 6:19
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TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
According to Acts 1:4-5 what is the promise? He said wait for the promise of the Father, which you heard of me, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit ...
Then Peter said in Acts 2:38-39 - be baptized in the name, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to as many as God will call.
You can believe whatever you want. But why try to cause others to believe they don't need his Spirit, when the scripture clearly says we do?
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Yes, we must obey the gospel, and the gospel says he gives his Spirit to those who obey him. Acts 5:32
And one of his commandments we must keep is: we must be born of the water, and of the Spirit to enter his kingdom. John 3:3-6 Which is what Peter is telling us how to do in Acts 2:38-39 (Repent, Be baptized in the name for remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.) That is being born again. Yet you are denying it.
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Nova2216
Active Member
I am not rejecting the Holy Spirit.
I am however rejecting the false teaching that men can do miracles today.
No one can do the miracles Jesus did in the first century.
If such miracles were done today 20/20 or 60 minutes would be all over them like bees on honey.
Why are we not seeing these miracles on these TV programs?
I believe the reason we do not see such things is b/c God is not with those who claim to have the gift to do miracles today (Jn 3:3-5).
"we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."
Where is the BEEF?
If one person has died of cancer in any group which claims they can do miracles that would prove they cannot do what they claim.
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
(Acts 1:5,8) is a discussion between the Lord and the apostles (not you).
We can see this is a continuation from (Luke 24:47-49).
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Those who the Lord "promised" the Holy Spirit baptism had to go to "Jerusalem" to receive HIm. (Luke 24:49).
"but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem"
This qualification cannot be overlooked.
Question - Have you ever been to Jerusalem?
But wait, there was another qualification.
In (Acts 1:5,8) we learn that this baptism of the Holy Spirit was to happen in a "few days" after the discussion in (Luke 24:47-49)...
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost "not many days hence"
Ye = The original 12 apostles (not you)
"Not many days hence" = On the day of Pentecost (in Jerusalem)..
Were you there?
A little bible study does a mind good.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2Tim.2:15)
Thanks
Nova2216
Active Member
You misunderstand (Jn 3:3-5).
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
This is one act with two elements.
One is baptized in water according to the instructions of the Holy Spirit.
Modern-Day Miracles, Tongue-Speaking, and Holy Spirit Baptism: A Refutation--EXTENDED VERSION
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
Modern-Day Miracles, Tongue-Speaking, and Holy Spirit Baptism: A Refutation--EXTENDED VERSION
Thanks
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
You say one act with two elements. The scriptures show different throughout the book of Acts. But believe whatever you want.