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How many sins before it is too late?

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Apparently there are many Christians who do not believe Jesus' last words, "it is finished." They must think that they must do the real "finishing" of their redemption by acting in an appropriate manner.

It also appears they don't believe Peter when he wrote:

1Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For whatever reason they must think that the word "incorruptible" really means "corruptible."

Furthermore, it appears they want to argue with Paul.

Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

I know there are some verses that appear to say Christians can loose their salvation, but why wouldn't those verses be a blatant contradiction to the above? Wouldn't all verses in the Bible have to say one thing or the other?

But it is not really my intent to argue the point. Instead, I'd like to hear from those who believe they must complete Jesus' work for him. Specifically I'd be curious to learn how many sins a Christian gets before it it supposedly too late and the work Jesus did in their lives is made void. Is it a specific number? Does it matter which sins they commit (murder vs a little white lie for example)?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Apparently there are many Christians who do not believe Jesus' last words, "it is finished." They must think that they must do the real "finishing" of their redemption by acting in an appropriate manner.

It also appears they don't believe Peter when he wrote:

1Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For whatever reason they must think that the word "incorruptible" really means "corruptible."

Furthermore, it appears they want to argue with Paul.

Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

I know there are some verses that appear to say Christians can loose their salvation, but why wouldn't those verses be a blatant contradiction to the above? Wouldn't all verses in the Bible have to say one thing or the other?

But it is not really my intent to argue the point. Instead, I'd like to hear from those who believe they must complete Jesus' work for him. Specifically I'd be curious to learn how many sins a Christian gets before it it supposedly too late and the work Jesus did in their lives is made void. Is it a specific number? Does it matter which sins they commit (murder vs a little white lie for example)?
An exercise in deliberate misunderstanding, tendentiousness and attempted ridicule, by the look of it.

If I felt you were simply asking in good faith about the beliefs of other Christians, I would answer this.

But I don't, unfortunately.
 
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rrobs

Well-Known Member
An exercise in deliberate misunderstanding, tendentiousness and attempted ridicule, by the look of it.

If I felt you were simply asking in good faith about the beliefs of other Christians, I would answer this.

But I don't, unfortunately.
Well, I was trying to make Christians think. Does that make it worthy of an answer?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well, I was trying to make Christians think. Does that make it worthy of an answer?
You seem to assume they have not thought this through already. But they have. Mainstream Christianity does have worked out theologies of salvation. You can even look them up on the internet. But I'll leave going through this to someone more patient than I am.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
You seem to assume they have not thought this through already. But they have. Mainstream Christianity does have worked out theologies of salvation. You can even look them up on the internet. But I'll leave going through this to someone more patient than I am.
Patience is a fruit of the spirit (Gal 5:22). That ties in with Gal 3:1-3 where it says we are perfected, not by the flesh but by the spirit. It's pretty interesting in any case.

Take care.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Apparently there are many Christians who do not believe Jesus' last words, "it is finished." They must think that they must do the real "finishing" of their redemption by acting in an appropriate manner.

It also appears they don't believe Peter when he wrote:

1Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For whatever reason they must think that the word "incorruptible" really means "corruptible."

Furthermore, it appears they want to argue with Paul.

Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

I know there are some verses that appear to say Christians can loose their salvation, but why wouldn't those verses be a blatant contradiction to the above? Wouldn't all verses in the Bible have to say one thing or the other?

But it is not really my intent to argue the point. Instead, I'd like to hear from those who believe they must complete Jesus' work for him. Specifically I'd be curious to learn how many sins a Christian gets before it it supposedly too late and the work Jesus did in their lives is made void. Is it a specific number? Does it matter which sins they commit (murder vs a little white lie for example)?

I never heard a christian say they have to work for jesus to "finish it." Who says that?

There is only one sin nonredeemable, and that is turning from christ. Which make sense, how can someone quote on quote save you if you don't follow him? How can you be saved from falling into the cliff when you decide not to go close to it in order to be in danger of the fall? Also, all acts of sin excluding the rejection one is redeemable by forgiveness and repentance.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I never heard a christian say they have to work for jesus to "finish it." Who says that?
Isn't that what it amounts to when someone says one can loose their salvation?

There is only one sin nonredeemable, and that is turning from christ. Which make sense, how can someone quote on quote save you if you don't follow him? How can you be saved from falling into the cliff when you decide not to go close to it in order to be in danger of the fall? Also, all acts of sin excluding the rejection one is redeemable by forgiveness and repentance.
Are you talking about turning from Christ after the new birth? If so, then the seed mentioned in 1 Peter 1:23 is not really incorruptible and God is a liar. That can't be right or we're all doomed.

1 John 1:9 (written to born again Christians) says if we confess our sins God will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I know it may seem a small thing, but that verse says nothing about repentance. That is something else altogether.

You may be getting your ideas from the Gospels. I would remind you that the Gospels were written to the Jews and not Gentiles. Jesus even said he didn't come but for the lost sheep of the tribe of Israel. It is important that born again Christians base their doctrine on the Epistles. Surely you can understand that things changed rather drastically after Jesus died, rose, and ascended. Paul is the one who tells us how things are in this day and age and they are quite different than God's dealing with Israel throughout the OT, including the gospels.

God is quite clear that our flesh is dead. Galatians chapter 3 was written because the Galatians thought they could perfect themselves by "good behaviour." That is not what the scriptures declare. We do good works, not to get or stay saved, but because we are saved. The more we understand about the work Jesus did, the more we want to be like him. The scriptures tell us many times to think on things above, i.e. the scriptures, and not on things of the earth. Our bodies are clearly earthly, so to the extent we try to perfect ourselves by good works of the flesh, we are keeping our thoughts on earthly things.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
You seem to assume they have not thought this through already. But they have. Mainstream Christianity does have worked out theologies of salvation. You can even look them up on the internet. But I'll leave going through this to someone more patient than I am.
Any idea on how mainstream Christianity sees 1 Peter 1:23? Of course, if you don't have the patience to answer, I understand.

Take care
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I believe it is only too late at the Last Judgment.
The two judgments mentioned in Revelation are not for born again Christians. Born again Christians have already been judged and found as righteous as God.

Rom 3:22,

Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
The scriptures speak of our inheritance which is reserved for us in heaven. They say we have been sealed unto the day of redemption. They see the gift of holy spirit is a token, a down payment, of our inheritance. Ephesians actually tells us we are already seated in the heavens with God.

Are we not identified with Jesus in baptism, death, resurrection, ascension? sure we are! If you want verses on all of these thing, let me know.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I believe it is only too late at the Last Judgment.
My understanding is that, conventionally, salvation is said to be by God's grace, due to Man's inescapably insufficient merit. I think this is strictly speaking the position of almost all Christians. Salvation is thus a gift, rather than something deserved.

Most of the older, pre-Reformation, traditions hold that God is believed to take account, not only of faith, but good works too, rather than the strict sola fide advocated by Luther. In practice it seems that a good number of the Protestant faithful also share this view, as it seems to be more reasonable. My understanding of Methodism, for instance, is that good works are considered important to the life of the Christian. (For one thing, this view admits the possibility of there being good people who reject Christianity who may nevertheless attain salvation, though I don't think this will appear in any official Christian theology!) .

This view avoids the unattractive taint of smug exclusivism that can seem to emanate from some of the strict sola fide people. I have met people of this sort who have an air of: "It does not matter how I behave, because I am saved, you see. [unlike you, you poor schmuck]".
 

Prim969

Member
Apparently there are many Christians who do not believe Jesus' last words, "it is finished." They must think that they must do the real "finishing" of their redemption by acting in an appropriate manner.

It also appears they don't believe Peter when he wrote:

1Pet 1:23,

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For whatever reason they must think that the word "incorruptible" really means "corruptible."

Furthermore, it appears they want to argue with Paul.

Gal 3:1-3,

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?​

I know there are some verses that appear to say Christians can loose their salvation, but why wouldn't those verses be a blatant contradiction to the above? Wouldn't all verses in the Bible have to say one thing or the other?

But it is not really my intent to argue the point. Instead, I'd like to hear from those who believe they must complete Jesus' work for him. Specifically I'd be curious to learn how many sins a Christian gets before it it supposedly too late and the work Jesus did in their lives is made void. Is it a specific number? Does it matter which sins they commit (murder vs a little white lie for example)?
Rob I’m sure when the Lord said ( it is finished) he meant what he said. I guess that gives him the power to redeem whoever he chooses.
 

Nova2216

Active Member
When I hear someone who claims to be a christian say the words

"it is finished"

they mean all they need to do to be saved is believe (alone).

(James 2) disagrees with their view strongly.

He that does the will of God will be saved (Mt.7:21-23).

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Mt.7:21-23)

Those who know not and obey not the gospel will be lost (2Thesws.1:7-9).


I generally ask these people must one repent to be saved?

They will say yes.

Then belief "alone" does not save does it.

The same goes for confession / baptism b/c there are verses which says they also save. (Luke 13:3) (1Peter3:21) (Mark 16:16)

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

***

(Ps 119:160) - 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.


Check out - apologeticspress.org
 

Prim969

Member
When I hear someone who claims to be a christian say the words

"it is finished"

they mean all they need to do to be saved is believe (alone).

(James 2) disagrees with their view strongly.

He that does the will of God will be saved (Mt.7:21-23).

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Mt.7:21-23)

Those who know not and obey not the gospel will be lost (2Thesws.1:7-9).


I generally ask these people must one repent to be saved?

They will say yes.

Then belief "alone" does not save does it.

The same goes for confession / baptism b/c there are verses which says they also save. (Luke 13:3) (1Peter3:21) (Mark 16:16)

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

***

(Ps 119:160) - 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Nova when Jesus did speak the words ( it is finished ) We do think apon him as being the promised sacrifice of the ages. Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. I do agree the Bible is the word of God and is like a most wonderful guide unto us. But it never limits God with whom he chooses to redeem. As to the baptism being a requirement of salvation. I’m not so sure about that. Actually I can’t even remember mine like most of us I guess.

Check out - apologeticspress.org
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Rob I’m sure when the Lord said ( it is finished) he meant what he said. I guess that gives him the power to redeem whoever he chooses.
While I think Jesus did mean what he said, I'm not sure how your conclusion follows. Just let it go at him saying he finished his job. No need to read anything more into it that's not there. That's what gives the scriptures a bad reputation.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Apparently there are many Christians who do not believe Jesus' last words, "it is finished." They must think that they must do the real "finishing" of their redemption by acting in an appropriate manner.
He was referring to His own life
 

Prim969

Member
While I think Jesus did mean what he said, I'm not sure how your conclusion follows. Just let it go at him saying he finished his job. No need to read anything more into it that's not there. That's what gives the scriptures a bad reputation.
Rob I’m not not sure what you are meaning by what gives the bible a bad reputation. But yes he certainly accomplished with those final words what he had set out to do ( It is finished ). Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world.
 
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Nova2216

Active Member
Whatever Jesus meant by the words "it is finished" must refer to the period "before" he spoke those words not after them.

It is true Jesus was speaking of his part in the gospel plan (1Cor.15:1-4). But man also has a part in the plan of God (Mark 16:16) (Mt.7:21).

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2Thess.1:7-9).

What is the gospel?

(Mark 16:15,16) Bel + Bapt = Saved

According to (Mk 16:15,16) the gospel which saves includes water baptism. The eunuch in (Acts 8) was taught baptism was a part of the plan of salvation. Paul's sins were not forgiven until the point of water baptism (Ac.22:16).

The jailer was baptized at after midnight (Ac.16:30-34).

Why did he not wait till weeks later? or at least till daylight hours?

Answer - B/c of what (Mk 16:15,16) and (1Peter 3:21) teaches.

Baptism doth now also save us (1Peter 3:21)

beingsaved.org
 
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Nova2216

Active Member
Let's notice "when" sins are forgiven according to the bible.

(Acts 2:38) - Repent + Baptism = Forgiveness of Sins.
(Ac.3:19) -- Repent + Converted = Blot Out Sins

In (Acts 9:1-6) Paul is told to go to a man and this man would tell Him what he needed to do the be saved. Paul was not saved on the road as many falsely claim for the man told Paul to arise be baptized and wash away your sins (this was three day after speaking to Jesus on the road). That's right, Paul lived in his sins three days till he got to Ananias an heard the true gospel..

The Prayers of Paul for three days did not wash away his sins b/c a new covenant was now in affect (Heb. 9:15-17) (Heb.10:9,10) (Heb.8:6 -13).

The alien sinner cannot pray to be saved according to (Jn 9:31).

31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. (Jn 9:31).

Can you now see how off course people are when it come to the true gospel of the NT? (Acts 17:11) (1Jn 4:1-6)

*

More on Baptism :

Lesson on Baptism (including bapstismal regeneration) ------> Great lesson

http://arisetotruth.com/12-06-11.mp3

.

thegospelofchrist.com - (free dvds)
Bible.ca/
thetruthinlove.com - (free dvds)
 

Nova2216

Active Member
I know there are some verses that appear to say Christians can loose their salvation, but why wouldn't those verses be a blatant contradiction to the above? Wouldn't all verses in the Bible have to say one thing or the other?

It is possible your position on once saved always saved is incorrect. If that is the case then the scriptures which teach one saved can be lost would harmonize.

One can be saved.

Save Yourselves (Acts 2:40)
Bel. + Bapt = Saved (Mk 16:15,16).

Some saved can be lost.

ye are fallen from grace. (Gal.5:4)
Whole Chapter (Luke 15)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.(2Peter 2:20-22)


arisetotruth.com
 
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