How many Pagans believe their deities created the universe?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Wrong. when you create you don't use your essence.

The act of conceiving a child is a form of creation so yes you do.

wrong. children are part of the parents' essence.

And are the result of procreation.

because a created universe is separated from Gods, thus it's a joke, plus it's impossible to exist.

Who gets to decide this? You? Such hubris. How do you know the gods didn't decide to create the universe then live within it? They surely have the power to do that...

a created universe is a joke plus it's impossible to exist.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so. How do you know we don't live in a created universe right now? That's a trick question; you can't know that we don't live in a created universe right now.

I've no idea what a Pagan doctrine is.

And yet you're acting like the following is doctrinally true...

In Greek Religion calling the universe "creation" is blasphemy.

Really? And who said this? I'm asking more out of curiosity than anything else. It's ultimately irrelevant since I'm not a reconstructionist. The ancients might have believed calling the universe "creation" is blasphemy but that doesn't mean I should or that I need to. The ancients also believed slavery was moral and that sacrificing animals & humans was ethical.

 

[syo]

Parents create a child?????

 

[syo]

Is create a synonym to give birth???? English is a foreign language to me, I don't know.

 

[syo]

A woman creates a child??? Really???

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Parents create a child?????

Well they sure as hell don't destroy a child when they have a baby. Conception. pregnancy and birth are creative processes.

 

[syo]

Well they sure as hell don't destroy a child when they have a baby. Conception. pregnancy and birth are creative processes.

Who said anything about destroy?

Isn't create similar to build?

 

[Maponos]

Is create a synonym to give birth???? English is a foreign language to me, I don't know.

Create means to make something. In this case, parents create a child through intercourse (hence the phrase 'making a baby').

 

[syo]

Create means to make something. In this case, parents create a child through intercourse (hence the phrase 'making a baby').

Ah I see. I thought create means build like a builder builds a house and I thought create is different than give birth.

 

[Nietzsche]

A woman creates a child??? Really???

Well it doesn't exactly sprout from the ether, now does it?

 

[syo]

Well it doesn't exactly sprout from the ether, now does it?

I thought create means build, using tools and materials.

 

[Cassandra]

"give birth" is the universe is part of the Gods

"create" is the universe is separate from the Gods

when you say the universe is "creation" you degrade the universe, it is blasphemous to say the universe is creation.

Hi Syo,

My take on this:

The distinction is indeed important but not because one is blasphemy.
In Hinduism there two Gods associated with creation:

The creator God is Brahmaa: Brahmaa can be seen as the designer, the architect, the choreographer. The designer is indeed separate from the material creation. He never touches it. His design is purely an intellectual, abstract product. He is the intellectual.

The re-creator God Shiva: Shiva can be seen as the builder, but he is more accurately described as the dancer that recreates the Universe in his endless dance. You could call him the generator. He creates the generations. The cycles of rebirth. He uses the design. He is the material creator. He is the artist.

 

[syo]

Hi Syo,

My take on this:

The distinction is indeed important but not because one is blasphemy.
In Hinduism there two Gods associated with creation:

The creator God is Brahmaa: Brahmaa can be seen as the designer, the architect, the choreographer. The designer is indeed separate from the material creation. He never touches it. His design is purely an intellectual, abstract product. He is the intellectual.

The re-creator God Shiva: Shiva can be seen as the builder, but he is more accurately described as the dancer that recreates the Universe in his endless dance. You could call him the generator. He creates the generations. The cycles of rebirth. He uses the design. He is the material creator. He is the artist.

I see, it's pretty.

The word "blasphemy" is harsh, I take it back.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

If you don't believe they did, what do you think make the universe?

I believe that this universe was made from the collision of Nifleheim and Muspelheim - cold and heat, death and life.

 

[Toten]

Or was the universe never created and it always existed and always will exist?

The constant cycle of existence and life. That's how I see it. No great beginning or great birth, no final battle or ultimate collapse. Just a movement in circles. The endless evolution of species, and the universe.
When it comes to stories of a great creation or Armageddon, I feel there is a bigger picture. Not a literal beginning, middle, and end. Not to mention much of what we know of said creation stories and endings, particularly in Norse and Gaelic mythology, were written by priests.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Not to mention much of what we know of said creation stories and endings, particularly in Norse and Gaelic mythology, were written by priests.

To be fair, they were written down by priests. At least, the Norse were - I don't know the story behind the Gaelic. The creation and ending myths already existed before they were written down.

 

[Toten]

To be fair, they were written down by priests. At least, the Norse were - I don't know the story behind the Gaelic. The creation and ending myths already existed before they were written down.

Yes, but we don't really know to what extent they existed before they were written down. So in reality it may have been something completely different, with a different point and meaning entirely.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I don't have the sources in front of me, but I've held this conversation with several in Heathen groups that I am a member of; while there certainly is some deviation - primarily in the Prose Edda - much of the myths that we have remain quite true to older iterations of them. Their understanding has just shifted significantly over the ages.

However, deviation is there, undoubtedly. Which is why I am a strong advocate of building the now, rather than relying on the then.

 

[Toten]

I don't have the sources in front of me, but I've held this conversation with several in Heathen groups that I am a member of; while there certainly is some deviation - primarily in the Prose Edda - much of the myths that we have remain quite true to older iterations of them. Their understanding has just shifted significantly over the ages.

However, deviation is there, undoubtedly. Which is why I am a strong advocate of building the now, rather than relying on the then.

After years of studying Germanic mythology, One of the most reliable, interesting, and useful sources I've ever found is Norse-English dictionaries, Proto-Germanic-English dictionaries, and Old-English - Modern English dictionaries. Looking at names of actual locations, and figures in folklore, can offer you much information on their meaning and origin.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Fun fact: I used to live under Thor's Mountain in Germany!