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How Literal Do You Take your Belief System?

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
Are the myths about the LHP deities literal spiritual history or symbolic of archetypes?

Personally I think that the person of Satan or any of the other deities are different personalities within different people. For example, Hippocrates came up with four different temperaments. And we know from LaVey there are the Four Crown Princes of Hell on page 57 of TSB.

Four temperaments - Wikipedia

The way I see it these four personality types must correlate to (or can be understood as) the four princes outlined in The Satanic Bible.

Don't get me wrong, it is entirely possible that the stories may have happened. Both views may be entirely legitimate. The point here is that the dark ones live inside all human beings. Truly, the instincts simply need to be exercised instead of done away with. LaVey was right; Satanists are born, not made. What he didn't say though was that everyone has the potential.

Is this too far fetched or does anyone else see what I see? Also, in your opinion, is it possible to be a Satanic Universalist?
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
Relating the 4 temperaments to the 4 princes? Now that's a new idea to me.
But I see how it could work - both are based on the idea of 4 elements, even if just symbolically in the latter case.

According to TSB, we have
Belial - (Hebrew) without a master, baseness of the earth, independence, the north
Leviathan - (Hebrew) the serpent out of the deeps, the sea, the west
Lucifer - (Roman) bringer of light, enlightenment, the air, the morning star, the east
Satan - (Hebrew) adversary, opposite, accuser, Lord of fire, the inferno, the south

According to Wikipedia, we have (in same elemental order) the temperaments
melancholic - analytical, wise, and quiet
phlegmatic - relaxed and peaceful
sanguine - enthusiastic, active, and social
choleric - short-tempered, fast, or irritable

I see how this could be compared, although it wouldn't have been the associations I would have had.
Normally I rather understand the 4 princes to symbolise 4 aspects of one's being:
Earth/Belial - body and the external world
Water/Leviathan - subconscious/emotions
Air/Lucifer - mind
Fire/Satan - awareness/will

And that doesn't seem like a perfect fit to me in regards to the temperaments... at least earth and air would have to be swapped.

It makes more sense to me to associate them with the gods from Warhammer 40K ;)

Earth - body - Nurgle
Water - feelings - Slaanesh
Air - mind - Tzeentch
Fire - will - Khorne

I guess with that I also reply to your question how literal to take all this :D
I'm agnostic to whether spirits actually exist, but if they do, then I see no reason why only more traditional ones would exist as they all were newly invented at one time.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Are the myths about the LHP deities literal spiritual history or symbolic of archetypes?
They are real in that they are archetype with the collective unconscious that people can become possessed/obsessed with.

Personally I think that the person of Satan or any of the other deities are different personalities within different people. For example, Hippocrates came up with four different temperaments. And we know from LaVey there are the Four Crown Princes of Hell on page 57 of TSB.

Four temperaments - Wikipedia

The way I see it these four personality types must correlate to (or can be understood as) the four princes outlined in The Satanic Bible.

Don't get me wrong, it is entirely possible that the stories may have happened. Both views may be entirely legitimate. The point here is that the dark ones live inside all human beings. Truly, the instincts simply need to be exercised instead of done away with. LaVey was right; Satanists are born, not made. What he didn't say though was that everyone has the potential.

Is this too far fetched or does anyone else see what I see? Also, in your opinion, is it possible to be a Satanic Universalist?

The Tibetan system also has personality types (called the Five Wisdom Families) associated with deities of the five directions, elements, and magickal types/colors.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
Normally I rather understand the 4 princes to symbolise 4 aspects of one's being:
Earth/Belial - body and the external world
Water/Leviathan - subconscious/emotions
Air/Lucifer - mind
Fire/Satan - awareness/will
Right, I just thought that some people were more in tune with maybe one or two aspects of themselves.
And that doesn't seem like a perfect fit to me in regards to the temperaments... at least earth and air would have to be swapped.
Maybe whoever made the concept for the chart in the article got it wrong.
They are real in that they are archetype with the collective unconscious that people can become possessed/obsessed with.
So the stories are just stories?
The Tibetan system also has personality types (called the Five Wisdom Families) associated with deities of the five directions, elements, and magickal types/colors.
Hmmm, thanks.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
Right, I just thought that some people were more in tune with maybe one or two aspects of themselves.
That's certainly the case. It's just that whichever of these groups of four I look at it's always a different one I relate to most.

Maybe whoever made the concept for the chart in the article got it wrong.
I think historically they are correct, just, the two models don't fit each other. What gets associated with different elements changes over the times.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Are the myths about the LHP deities literal spiritual history or symbolic of archetypes?

Personally I think that the person of Satan or any of the other deities are different personalities within different people. For example, Hippocrates came up with four different temperaments. And we know from LaVey there are the Four Crown Princes of Hell on page 57 of TSB.

Four temperaments - Wikipedia

The way I see it these four personality types must correlate to (or can be understood as) the four princes outlined in The Satanic Bible.

Don't get me wrong, it is entirely possible that the stories may have happened. Both views may be entirely legitimate. The point here is that the dark ones live inside all human beings. Truly, the instincts simply need to be exercised instead of done away with. LaVey was right; Satanists are born, not made. What he didn't say though was that everyone has the potential.

Is this too far fetched or does anyone else see what I see? Also, in your opinion, is it possible to be a Satanic Universalist?

You're right about this but in the weirdest sort of happy accident way. :D

What it was is the Golden Dawn used these attributions, Crowley stole them, Franz Bardon liked this method, and LaVey re-appropriated them. All of them decided to use different names to address these "quarters", "elemental correspondences", "dispositions", "princes of hell", etc.

I am sure LaVey was stuck in the quandary of giving some kinda name to the thing to deal due to the various occultniks getting involved and this being one of the first questions they'd needle him about. Historically, there is no backing for his use of these names. I'm sure he just picked whatever seemed good... :D

No two groups of LHPers seem to agree on these names anyways.... :D
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Another way to look at the Four Crown Princes is by correlating them to Jung's Four Cognitive Functions:

Belial--Sensory
Lucifer--Thinking
Satan--Feeling
Leviathan--iNtuition (yes I made the N capitalized on purpose. Capital I stands for Introverted in this system, so iNtuition gets the capital N)

Jungian cognitive functions - Wikipedia
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Relating the 4 temperaments to the 4 princes? Now that's a new idea to me.
But I see how it could work - both are based on the idea of 4 elements, even if just symbolically in the latter case.

IIRC and someone correct me if I'm wrong but I could of sworn I saw a page in The Satanic Witch that did basically this but under different terms. Something about 4 body/personality types or some such thing.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
Another way to look at the Four Crown Princes is by correlating them to Jung's Four Cognitive Functions:

Belial--Sensory
Lucifer--Thinking
Satan--Feeling
Leviathan--iNtuition (yes I made the N capitalized on purpose. Capital I stands for Introverted in this system, so iNtuition gets the capital N)

Jungian cognitive functions - Wikipedia
Close enough to the attributions I came up with above.

Based on that there is the Myers-Briggs system of personality types: Myers–Briggs Type Indicator - Wikipedia
But in this, everyone is either more thinking or more feeling, as well as either more sensory or more intuitive, and would therefore have two 'elemental' attributions (with one of them more dominant).

And in regards to how to name these concepts, yes, that can be rather random.
I mean, see what being predominantly feeling means in the Myers-Briggs version (according to Wikipedia):
"Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it 'from the inside' and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved."
I guess LaVey didn't read that before he associated feeling with Satan :D
 
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