How is Muslim Immigration To Sweden Working Out?

[LuisDantas]

I know why they emigrated, it was persecution that motivated them, and how they lived. They did not seek to impose their culture nor did they seek to adopt American culture uncritically. They were classic "hyphenated" Americans just as is true for many others.

I do not doubt that for a moment. I just don't see why that is not a cultural cause; being persecuted by one culture and seeking refuge in another, by my view.

More significantly for this thread's purposes, it also seems to me that it is unavoidable (and very often constructive) to bring a bit of one's culture of origin when one adopts another.

Mind you, it may be helpful to remind you that I am a Brazilian, and a particularly unattached one at that. I am not one to insist on the merits of keeping true to one's original culture. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not liking a religion and criticizing it is one thing. I do that all the time with various Christian sects. But when you're looking down on someone or viewing them as a threat merely for their religion alone and nothing else? That's bigotry on the same level as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. There's literally nothing all almost 2 billion Muslims have in common besides a religious label and it's totally irrational make assumptions about their character simply because of a religious label, which says nothing about their character. You're not judging them as individuals or even giving them a chance. And I've seen you post some very insulting things about Islam, such as saying it's a mental illness. I'm shocked that you, as a staff member, feel that that's in any way appropriate, given the rules on this site and the forum mission.

The way I see it, you are simply failing to understand what I say and the implications and lashing out of me unfairly. Quite unfairly at that, make no mistake. You are very much courting with libel.

I would advise a bit more attention and a bit less judgement. I am entitled to my opinions and I take them very seriously indeed, rest assured.

 

[sun rise]

I do not doubt that for a moment. I just don't see why that is not a cultural cause; being persecuted by one culture and seeking refuge in another, by my view.

That's a different view of culture than what I had in mind and assumes that politics is inherently the outcome of culture.

 

[SugarOcean]

Does the OP laugh when blind people trip on fall. Because the OP seems to have this nasty habit of laughing at other people's misfortunes

Prove it.

There are nearly 2 billion Muslims in the world and you think they are all of one mind and purpose like the Borg?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/muslim-population-by-country/

Do the math. Two billion Muslims in the world. What's the smallest percentage population that could be terrorists number? How about 1%?
Sound threatening?

• https://psmag.com/news/most-terrorist-victims-are-muslim

 

[Neutral Name]

In your anti-Trump zeal you quoted the wrong person. Maybe take a breath and consider an edit.

Very sorry, it was late at night and I was very tired. I will not do that again.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The way I see it, you are simply failing to understand what I say and the implications and lashing out of me unfairly. Quite unfairly at that, make no mistake. You are very much courting with libel.

I would advise a bit more attention and a bit less judgement. I am entitled to my opinions and I take them very seriously indeed, rest assured.

Nothing I said was libelous because I haven't lied about anything you have said. You can say whatever you want but that doesn't mean you're exempt from criticism. I am merely responding since I find your stated views rather offensive, especially given your position on this forum. Maybe you should think more about how you're presenting your views. Like maybe not call a world religion a "mental illness" or say that you mistrust people just because they're Muslim. Replace "Muslims" with "Jews", "black people" or whatever other group and you know that would be seen as totally unacceptable to say but I've noticed bigotry has had an uptick on this board in the past few years so maybe it's actually the forum mission and rules that need to be changed.

 

[Revoltingest]

The way I see it, you are simply failing to understand what I say and the implications and lashing out of me unfairly. Quite unfairly at that, make no mistake. You are very much courting with libel.

I would advise a bit more attention and a bit less judgement. I am entitled to my opinions and I take them very seriously indeed, rest assured.

If I read you correctly, you deal with Muslims as individuals. But Islam is the scripture which might or might not lead one to wrongdoing. Criticizing this scripture is valid. To call this “racism” is to be mistaken, and to misuse the word as mere insult.
He’s racist against Brazilians!

 

[Darkforbid]

If I read you correctly, you deal with Muslims as individuals. But Islam is the scripture which might or might not lead one to wrongdoing. To call this “racism” is to be mistaken, and to misuse the word as mere insult.
He’s racist against Brazilians!

That's nuts

 

[Revoltingest]

That's nuts

I agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

If I read you correctly, you deal with Muslims as individuals. But Islam is the scripture which might or might not lead one to wrongdoing. Criticizing this scripture is valid. To call this “racism” is to be mistaken, and to misuse the word as mere insult.
He’s racist against Brazilians!

That sounds just about right.

It did not escape me that I have been called a "hater" or something simply because I state that I do not consider Islaam a functional religion.

As you have stated and I hoped to have made clear in many an occasion, my criticism of Islaam as a doctrine (which is admitedly heavy, albeit justifiably so far as I can tell) does not translate into hatred for Muslims. I am not about to surrender judgement calls that might affect me to them if I can help it, but their safety and human rights are something else entirely.

 

[Wasp]

You got that right. That’s why most of my Muslim neighbours moved here. Try criticising Islam in Iran.

We get along very well.

This thread, re the OP, is about a cultural clash which is having some lamentable outcomes.
The real villain here is bad social engineering IMO. Bad because it seems to ignore the actualities of primate behaviour.

Actually the OP is about propaganda and Islamophobia.

 

[Howard Is]

Actually the OP is about propaganda and Islamophobia.

And I am pointing out that my Muslim neighbours could be executed for their ‘Islamophobia’ in Iran.

 

[SugarOcean]

That sounds just about right.

It did not escape me that I have been called a "hater" or something simply because I state that I do not consider Islaam a functional religion.

I would agree.
"A functional definition of religion is based on what religion does and how it operates ‘in terms of its place in the social/psychological system.’1"
https://ugc.futurelearn.com/uploads...l_and_Substantive_Definitions_of_Religion.pdf

As you have stated and I hoped to have made clear in many an occasion, my criticism of Islaam as a doctrine (which is admitedly heavy, albeit justifiably so far as I can tell) does not translate into hatred for Muslims. I am not about to surrender judgement calls that might affect me to them if I can help it, but their safety and human rights are something else entirely.

Well said. Criticism of Islam does not translate to hatred for Muslims.
Unfortunately, the converse is implied often enough in discussions like this. Even the idea is propagated in much of western society, including our media that doesn't report fairly Muslim terrorist attacks as terror attacks by Muslims, using the express language to report such evil. And likely because for some strange reason we're not suppose to risk angering a people who have a reported history of suicide revenge.

 

[LuisDantas]

To be fair, it is scary and disturbing to think that a major, very influential doctrine has gone quite so wrong.

The natural tendency is to doubt that things are that bleak. Or at least that is what I did a few years ago.

 

[SugarOcean]

To be fair, it is scary and disturbing to think that a major, very influential doctrine has gone quite so wrong.

The natural tendency is to doubt that things are that bleak. Or at least that is what I did a few years ago.

It is disturbing. However, Islam is a political ideology first. As such there will always be conflict when a political ideology attempts to inculcate religious moral doctrine into its tenets.
Islam's holy books are the Qur'an and Muhammad's Hadith.
The Hadith calls for globalization at doctrinal and practical levels. When Muslim's refer to Islam as a "religion of peace", one wonders how that can be with the events of terror around the globe directly attributed to Islamists.
It is because the peace described is afforded once the tenets and practices of Islam blanket the globe.
Islam and Globalization

Qur'an Surah 21:107
And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

Surah 25:1
Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion upon His Servant that he may be to the worlds a warner

 

[SugarOcean]

And I am pointing out that my Muslim neighbours could be executed for their ‘Islamophobia’ in Iran.

A tragic and yet relevant point.

• MOST TERRORIST VICTIMS ARE MUSLIM

The Christchurch shooting continues a global pattern: Around the world, the majority of victims of terrorist attacks are Muslim.
JACK HERRERA
MAR 18, 2019

American women who convert to Islam and live in America have the American view of the practice of Islam. If they lived in the middle east, especially as American women with American features, they'd find women in Islam know a very different reality.

• Tearing Off The Veil

• LOC WOMEN IN ISLAMIC SOCIETIES: A SELECTED REVIEW OF SOCIAL SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE (PDF)

 

[Bob Jones]

A tragic and yet relevant point.

• MOST TERRORIST VICTIMS ARE MUSLIM

The Christchurch shooting continues a global pattern: Around the world, the majority of victims of terrorist attacks are Muslim.
JACK HERRERA
MAR 18, 2019

American women who convert to Islam and live in America have the American view of the practice of Islam. If they lived in the middle east, especially as American women with American features, they'd find women in Islam know a very different reality.

• Tearing Off The Veil

• LOC WOMEN IN ISLAMIC SOCIETIES: A SELECTED REVIEW OF SOCIAL SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE (PDF)

Reported in today's new. A young lady was murdered by gunshot while walking on the beach(in Sweden) with her child.The assailants ran off and where described as North Africans. This happens in Sweden just about every other week now.

 

[Bob Jones]

Reported my Swedish News papers. Swedish authorities are looking into the shooting death of a woman in Vällingby in north-western Stockholm.
Another violent crime in Sweden

 

[Bob Jones]

In your anti-Trump zeal you quoted the wrong person. Maybe take a breath and consider an edit.

Yes indeed you are correct!

 

[Bob Jones]

Henrick Olsson Lilja, a prominent Swedish lawyer who initially represented US rapper ASAP Rocky in his recent assault case, was shot multiple times after leaving an apartment building in Stockholm