How is Jesus inseparably ‘one with the Father’ and created by himself when ‘Father’ means ‘Creator’?

[Soapy]

Trinity believers claim that Jesus, in some unwritten, unknown, and impossible pre-existence, created all things in the material world (Creation).

The book of Genesis has ‘GOD’ as the creator. And we know that ‘Father’ is another term for ‘Creator’, yet Jesus is not called ‘Creator’; that is, ‘Father’!

In fact, Jesus, born of mankind through the Holy Spirit of THE FATHER (Yahweh), calls Yahweh, ‘his Father and God’.

In addition, scriptures tells us that creation is the work of the Father…

The circle of truth of creation does not seem to start nor end with Jesus, it appears - but rather it begins with God (The Father) and ends with God (The Father).

Somewhere along the circle there seems to be an injection of Jesus being the creator which does not seem to fit.

If God is inseparably one… three in one… how did Jesus created ‘all by himself’ separate from the Father?

Surely the claim should be that

1. God (together) created all things
2. The Father (Creator) created all things
3. Jesus created as a lone part of an inseparable God (but how?)
4. Jesus is the Father (Creator)

What do you think?

 

[exchemist]

Trinity believers claim that Jesus, in some unwritten, unknown, and impossible pre-existence, created all things in the material world (Creation).

The book of Genesis has ‘GOD’ as the creator. And we know that ‘Father’ is another ten for ‘Creator’, yet Jesus is not called ‘Creator’; that is, ‘Father’!

In fact, Jesus, born of mankind through the Holy Spirit of THE FATHER (Yahweh), calls Yahweh, ‘his Father and God’.

In addition, scriptures tells us that creation is the work of the Father…

The circle of truth of creation does not seem to start nor end with Jesus, it appears - but rather it begins with God (The Father) and ends with God (The Father).

Somewhere along the circle there seems to be an injection of Jesus being the creator which does not seem to fit.

If God is inseparably one… three in one… how did Jesus created ‘all by himself’ separate from the Father?

Surely the claim should be that

1. God (together) created all things
2. The Father (Creator) created all things
3. Jesus created as a lone part of an inseparable God (but how?)
4. Jesus is the Father (Creator)

What do you think?

The Word.

 

[1213]

....

1. God (together) created all things
2. The Father (Creator) created all things
3. Jesus created as a lone part of an inseparable God (but how?)
4. Jesus is the Father (Creator)

What do you think?

I think:
...(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.
Colossians 1:14-16

 

[Wildswanderer]

New Trinity believers claim that Jesus, in some unwritten, unknown, and impossible pre-existence, created all things in the material world (Creation).

The book of Genesis has ‘GOD’ as the creator. And we know that ‘Father’ is another ten for ‘Creator’, yet Jesus is not called ‘Creator’; that is, ‘Father’!

Um.. because they are one.
Jesus is God. The Father is God. The spirit is God. Three but one.

 

[74x12]

Trinity believers claim that Jesus, in some unwritten, unknown, and impossible pre-existence, created all things in the material world (Creation).

The book of Genesis has ‘GOD’ as the creator. And we know that ‘Father’ is another ten for ‘Creator’, yet Jesus is not called ‘Creator’; that is, ‘Father’!

In fact, Jesus, born of mankind through the Holy Spirit of THE FATHER (Yahweh), calls Yahweh, ‘his Father and God’.

In addition, scriptures tells us that creation is the work of the Father…

The circle of truth of creation does not seem to start nor end with Jesus, it appears - but rather it begins with God (The Father) and ends with God (The Father).

Somewhere along the circle there seems to be an injection of Jesus being the creator which does not seem to fit.

If God is inseparably one… three in one… how did Jesus created ‘all by himself’ separate from the Father?

Surely the claim should be that

1. God (together) created all things
2. The Father (Creator) created all things
3. Jesus created as a lone part of an inseparable God (but how?)
4. Jesus is the Father (Creator)

What do you think?

It's a mystery that is not easily understood. You should study John chapter 1 in light of Genesis chapter 1. You can't understand John 1 without Genesis 1. Because that's what John was writing about. He was unveilign the mystery of Genesis 1:3.

When the scripture says all things are made through Jesus it means the incarnate Christ. This is why Jesus says before Abraham was I am. He (his human form) did always exist by the foreknowledge and predestination of God. (1 Peter 1:20) And in this hope and revelation; all of creation was made. Because he is the hope of mankind and the revelation of God in the flesh. So without him there was no hope or even point for creation.

Because Jesus is the Light of Genesis 1:3. When it says the Light shined in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not in John chapter 1 it means the same light.

This is the first recorded spoken sentence of God in the Bible. "Let there be Light". So that is the "Word" that was with the Father and finally reaveled to the world in his time. Which is the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is even the Word (Aleph/Tav = Alpha and Omega) that is with God in Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. This is significant that he is the first and last letters of the alphabet because we form all words with letters and so Jesus is the Word of God.

Once you understand that; you understand that everything which God made was made in this very same Light. As it says he called the Light (Genesis 1:3 light) day and the darkness he called night.

So he made everything in 6 periods of the shining of the Light that was Christ. Each day being a day unto God only and not a day by the sun. That is it was not a solar day like we have. It was a day of the Light of God's shining.

So what is this Light that was Christ? It is none other than God manifest in the world.

As it says in 1st John 1:5. God is Light and in him is no darkness at all ...

So then when God said "Let there be Light" he meant his own light within the world of man. So this was His own light shining in our world. That is Jesus Christ. And Jesus comes the very Light of creation to make us again into the image of the Father. This is why it says of him he is the express image of God's person. Because He is the pattern we are to be made after so that we can be restored unto the Father and so the Father can recognize us as his own who have turned away and rebelled since Adam until now.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Edit: By the way I also am not trinitarian. I believe Jesus is the one God and the Father rather than a distinct 2nd person of the trinity.

 

[Soapy]

I think:
...(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.
Colossians 1:14-16

Can I also quote:

• “For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers;

So one part says ‘By Him’ and another says ‘Through Him’!

Which is it.

The second part ‘Through Him’ can still be understood as meaning ‘By Him’.

But altogether the verse is claiming that Jesus created Heaven, as well!!

Doesn’t ‘Father’ mean:

• ‘He that Creates’
• ‘He that brings into being’
• ‘He that gives life to …’

 

[Soapy]

Um.. because they are one.
Jesus is God. The Father is God. The spirit is God. Three but one.

But if they are ONE, the question is STILL ‘How did ONE PART of ONE indivisible three’ do something SEPARATE from the other two?

What the ‘CREATOR’ do while Jesus was “creating”?

 

[Kenny]

But if they are ONE, the question is STILL ‘How did ONE PART of ONE indivisible three’ do something SEPARATE from the other two?

What the ‘CREATOR’ do while Jesus was “creating”?

You could think of it this way....

God (The Father) envisioned it into existence
God (The Word) spoke it into existence
God (The Holy Spirit) created it into existence

Of course, it isn't a compendium on how He created it.

 

[Soapy]

It's a mystery that is not easily understood. You should study John chapter 1 in light of Genesis chapter 1. You can't understand John 1 without Genesis 1. Because that's what John was writing about. He was unveilign the mystery of Genesis 1:3.

When the scripture says all things are made through Jesus it means the incarnate Christ. This is why Jesus says before Abraham was I am. He (his human form) did always exist by the foreknowledge and predestination of God. (1 Peter 1:20) And in this hope and revelation; all of creation was made. Because he is the hope of mankind and the revelation of God in the flesh. So without him there was no hope or even point for creation.

Because Jesus is the Light of Genesis 1:3. When it says the Light shined in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not in John chapter 1 it means the same light.

This is the first recorded spoken sentence of God in the Bible. "Let there be Light". So that is the "Word" that was with the Father and finally reaveled to the world in his time. Which is the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is even the Word (Aleph/Tav = Alpha and Omega) that is with God in Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. This is significant that he is the first and last letters of the alphabet because we form all words with letters and so Jesus is the Word of God.

Once you understand that; you understand that everything which God made was made in this very same Light. As it says he called the Light (Genesis 1:3 light) day and the darkness he called night.

So he made everything in 6 periods of the shining of the Light that was Christ. Each day being a day unto God only and not a day by the sun. That is it was not a solar day like we have. It was a day of the Light of God's shining.

So what is this Light that was Christ? It is none other than God manifest in the world.

As it says in 1st John 1:5. God is Light and in him is no darkness at all ...

So then when God said "Let there be Light" he meant his own light within the world of man. So this was His own light shining in our world. That is Jesus Christ. And Jesus comes the very Light of creation to make us again into the image of the Father. This is why it says of him he is the express image of God's person. Because He is the pattern we are to be made after so that we can be restored unto the Father and so the Father can recognize us as his own who have turned away and rebelled since Adam until now.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.


Edit: By the way I also am not trinitarian. I believe Jesus is the one God and the Father rather than a distinct 2nd person of the trinity.

So are you saying that God created everything - not Jesus?

 

[Soapy]

You could think of it this way....

God (The Father) envisioned it into existence
God (The Word) spoke it into existence
God (The Holy Spirit) created it into existence

Of course, it isn't a compendium on how He created it.

No! Because they are said to be ONE!!

That means that what one does they all do!

They can only do ‘something SEPARATE’ if they are not the SAME ONE God.

Your hand, your feet, your head…. did this or that…

You can say that because each PART of YOUR BODY is SEPARATE.

But it cannot be said the same for the trinity God. The three are said to be THE ONE GOD.

Your hand, your Feet, your Head, are NOT THE SAME ONE BODY. They are SEPARATE PARTS of the same one body.

Trinity claims that their God is INDIVISIBLE!

There can not be ‘parts’ of an indivisible entity!!!

 

[Kenny]

No! Because they are said to be ONE!!

"No" is a judgment call...

let me say it differently.

My spirit said (and envisioned) you are healed by the strips of Jesus.
My soul said with words, "I am healed by the strips of Jesus"
My body got out of the bed and "I was healed"

But I am just one body.

 

[74x12]

So are you saying that God created everything - not Jesus?

I'm saying Jesus is God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But if they are ONE, the question is STILL ‘How did ONE PART of ONE indivisible three’ do something SEPARATE from the other two?

What the ‘CREATOR’ do while Jesus was “creating”?

They all created. You are creating riddles where there are no riddles.
It says nothing was created without Jesus. It doesn't say that the other two didn't also create.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No! Because they are said to be ONE!!

That means that what one does they all do!

They can only do ‘something SEPARATE’ if they are not the SAME ONE God.

Your hand, your feet, your head…. did this or that…

You can say that because each PART of YOUR BODY is SEPARATE.

But it cannot be said the same for the trinity God. The three are said to be THE ONE GOD.

Your head, your Feet, your Head, are NOT THE SAME ONE BODY. They are SEPARATE PARTS of the same one body.

Trinity claims that their God is INDIVISIBLE!

There can not be ‘parts’ of an indivisible entity!!!

Obviously we can't fully understand God . We think in human terms and divisions with humans limited logic. God isn't limited by our understanding.

 

[Soapy]

"No" is a judgment call...

let me say it differently.

My spirit said (and envisioned) you are healed by the strips of Jesus.
My soul said with words, "I am healed by the strips of Jesus"
My body got out of the bed and "I was healed"

But I am just one body.

No, KenS.

Your SOUL is your your Body and Spirit: your Person.

‘Soul’ is just another word for ‘Person’ just as ‘Messiah’ is another word for ‘Christ’ and ‘LORD’ is another way of saying ‘YHWH’.

Your trinity stance drives you to make an invalid claim … to try to force a three-some element to an individual human Being to try to wrongfully reflect your fallacy that God is also a three-some individual.

Your Spirit, the spirit of the PERSON that is KenS, creates a thought that is fermented in the physical brain and then possible uttered out of the physical mouth of you, KenS.

Your Mouth is not the CREATOR of the thought… it is just an agent which is in control by the Spirit of you…. just as every part of the body of you is in control by the spirit of you. When the Spirit of you leaves your body the body decays back to dust due to it being unsupported, unsustained, unmanaged, uncared for BY YOUR SPIRIT. From a human perspective you are then considered as DEAD!

In every place where you see the word ‘Soul’ you can completely, validly, totally, replace it with ‘Person’.

Try it and see.

 

[Kenny]

No, KenS.

Your SOUL is your your Body and Spirit: your Person.

That may be just why you can't quit grasp the concept:

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are actually 3 parts.

Your spirit gets born again when you give your life to Jesus (In Christian understanding)
Your soul is renewed by the word of God
Your body dies and you get a new one

Three parts, different materiality and with a different purpose - but one person

 

[Soapy]

I'm saying Jesus is God.

So then God created everything?

And The Father created everything?

And the spirit of God created everything?

And the Son of God created everything?

Yes to all?

But yet what the author of Corinthians is supposedly have written is that only Jesus created all things?

And yet Jesus himself said that he could do nothing that he did not first see the Father (Creator) do!!

 

[Soapy]

That may be just why you can't quit grasp the concept:

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are actually 3 parts.

Your spirit gets born again when you give your life to Jesus (In Christian understanding)
Your soul is renewed by the word of God
Your body dies and you get a new one

Three parts, different materiality and with a different purpose - but one person

No KenS!

‘May your whole Soul: Body and Spirit…’

1) Provide a verse claiming the ‘renewal of the soul’.

Scriptures teaches of the renewal of the Spirit of a person.

The body serves for nothing in this regard except that the spirit of a person should keep the usage of the body, the vessel that it is encased in, sacred to God. A person, should keep their body sacred to God!

2) Please tell me about when Jesus died - what happened to his ‘Soul’, ‘Spirit’, and ‘Body’!

 

[Kenny]

No KenS!

‘May your whole Soul: Body and Spirit…’

1) Provide a verse claiming the ‘renewal of the soul’.

Scriptures teaches of the renewal of the Spirit of a person.

The body serves for nothing in this regard except that the spirit of a person should keep the usage of the body, the vessel that it is encased in, sacred to God. A person, should keep their body sacred to God!

2) Please tell me about when Jesus died - what happened to his ‘Soul’, ‘Spirit’, and ‘Body’!

Rom 12:2 JUB And be not conformed to this age, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your soul that ye may experience what is that good and well pleasing and perfect will of God.



Your spirit doesn't need to be renewed, it is born again:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Since you are one spirit with the Lord, the spirit need not to be "renewed"




Body... that which is born of the flesh is flesh (John 3)

 

[Soapy]

They all created. You are creating riddles where there are no riddles.
It says nothing was created without Jesus. It doesn't say that the other two didn't also create.

Ha ha ha ha……

What did the other ‘two’ create such that it is said by Trinitarians that Jesus alone created everything?