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Featured How is God's prophesy of making Jews jealous by going to the gentiles played out

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The Jews were destined to be a light unto the nations. Peter says they are a nation of priests. Exodus refers to them as a nation of priests. Who are you to argue?
     
  2. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    When were they a nation of priests.... the house of aaron were the priests
     
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    '>Isaiah 61:6
    Verse Concepts
    But you will be called the priests of the LORD; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their riches you will boast.


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    '>Isaiah 66:21
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    "I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.


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    '>Revelation 1:6
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    and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


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    '>Revelation 5:10
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    "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

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    '>Exodus 19:6
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    and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

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    '>1 Peter 2:9
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    But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

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    '>Isaiah 61:6
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    But you will be called the priests of the LORD; You will be spoken of as ministers of our God You will eat the wealth of nations, And in their riches you will boast.


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    '>Isaiah 66:21
    Verse Concepts
    "I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.


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    '>Revelation 1:6
    Verse Concepts
    and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.


    Tools
    Verse page
    '>Revelation 5:10
    Verse Concepts
    "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

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    Verse page
    '>Exodus 19:6
    Verse Concepts
    and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

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    '>1 Peter 2:9
    Verse Concepts
    But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
     
  4. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The priesthood became limited to the house of Aaron however Psalm 110 makes the Messiah a priest forever of the order of Melchizedek

    ...and so the church in Christ are a kingdom of priests

    and that was a future fulfillment of the promise 'you shall be a kingdom of priests'
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No, that's not what it says.

    Joseph did not figuratively die or figuratively overcome death. And he was literally the viceroy, not figuratively.

    No it doesn't...
    Non sequitur much?
    You say that eventually Joseph's brothers eyes were opened. But you don't actually know when they began to regret their actions. For all you know, it may have been immediately after Joseph disappeared into the distance. Although again, this has nothing to do with the topic...

    There is only one group of Jews, not two.

    Because that's not what it's talking about. The verse is describing a punishment to the Jewish people for having turned to false gods. This happened often during the First Temple era. Then the punishment, described in the second half of the verse should relate to that. And it does, as I showed you a verse where the Assyrians are described as a people who are "not a people". Clearly, this verse from Deut is speaking about them.
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    It says what it says.

    Melchizedek was not a Hebrew but a Canaanite.
     
  7. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Yes a priesthood figuratively of a different sort than the House of Aaron. And Jesus being of the tribe of Juhah and not being a Levite or house of Aaron would be a priest forever of a different sort

    as promised

    Psalm 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind,
    “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”

    need I point out this is part of the prelude to the Passover psalms? following Psalm 109 which is about the Judas epoch - why might that be
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I think it's amazing that the prelude to the passover Psalms of 113 through 118 includes
    the betrayal by Judas in Ps 109 and make like Melchizedek in Ps 110.

    It's just like it was planned
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    So you shifted gears.. I take it you have a complete grasp on Melchizedek.
     
  11. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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  12. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Thank you, even tho read the Curse multiple times, had miss that contexts; you are right the Christian & Muslims are there to bring the Jews to jealousy...

    Because they don't understand the language, and have thus gone backwards as prophesied (Deuteronomy 31:24-29).

    Like Isaiah 46:9 says 'EL is not like the Elohim, and there is none besides'... It points back to Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is stated as the father, and the Elohim (Archangels) are the sons of God.

    In these verses in Deuteronomy 32 the word El is used H410 specifically as the Source; Yahavah Elohim (H430) is an archangel (H433), who is Lord of Creation.

    When we examine the differences it is clear; El is beyond form used in the 2nd commandment, and then the Elohim have appeared multiple times.

    El = Source (H410)
    Eloh = God Breathed Being (H433)
    Elohim = God Breathed Beings (H430)
    Elim = Gods (H???)

    When Yeshua Elohim came along (Isaiah 52:10, Psalms 98:3), they didn't understand it, and were put under the Curse (Deuteronomy 28).

    Now as Zion Elohim (Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7) before the Tribulation; trying to offer correction, yet being ignored leads to this:

    Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in my anger, that burns to the lowest Sheol,devours the earth with its increase, and sets the foundations of the mountains on fire.


    A Christian should realize that Yeshua's father is El Elyon (God Most High - Luke 1:32, Luke 6:35), and Yeshua Elohim is Yahavah Elohim (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2), with Zion Elohim being the Messiah.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
    #52 wizanda, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Which is fine & dandy but those are still just interpretations that some apply to Jesus. However, there are also other interpretations, which is why I used the term "directly".
    OTOH, "Jerome's Bible Commentary" uses the term "prefigures" in that even though references in the OT may refer to some other people, there's a pattern set for Jesus to be fit in, which is a common technique used frequently in the scriptures, both OT and NT, such as Jesus being the new Adam, the new Moses, the new Suffering Servant, etc.
     
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  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Moses, David, Isaiah implied the Salvation (H3444) from God, shall be put into the flesh of David, with the name Yehoshua.

    Do the word searches, research all the contextual applications, and you'll see this is what is stated, there is a vast array of scriptures detailing it all....

    It is bad hermeneutics by many to look for a name, as it is far more advanced than that.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I very much have spent gobs of time looking it up as I taught theology for many years.

    In real estate, the value of a house is more based on "location, location, location", and within theological circles it's more "interpretation, interpretation, interpretation". The problem all too often is that people tend to "see" what they want to see, whereas serious theological studies involve looking at the scriptures objectively even if some of the conclusions means going against what one believes.

    Isaiah, for example, clearly is not at least directly about Jesus because events and some teachings simply do not match what happened with the coming of Jesus and subsequent events within the Church. However, some verses within Isaiah can be used, and have been used, to "prefigure" Jesus, which in no way takes Jesus away from what he became and what his impact was and is.

    Even though both Judaism and Christianity are what we call "linear" with their approach to the history of faith ("on-going revelation"), we do see a cyclical pattern with what we might call "flashbacks" with parallels being drawn. Aquinas very much focused in on that as he well know that the literalistic approach simply does not work with the concept of Jesus being the Messiah as many of the messianic predictions, taken literally, have gone unfulfilled. Instead, it's basically the "essence" of both them and Jesus that basically fulfilled these predictions.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    I don't think Isaiah is about Jesus either. It seems to me that Christians have borrowed Isaiah to beef up claims about Jesus.
     
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  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It's very hard for many people to accept the imperfection of their own scriptures, and this applies to basically all religions as we've repeatedly seen. Heck, even if our own scriptures were somehow "perfect", our own minds aren't, which puts us right back on "first base".

    BTW, that latter point isn't a reference to dating. :)
     
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  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    As an exegetical standard Strongs reference searches are objective, it is just the study needed to comprehend all the intertextuality in the Tanakh properly.

    Moses saw the salvation of God separate the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), and the Lord promised that he'd become our salvation (Exodus 15:2).

    David was promised that the Lord would become our salvation if the children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and Jehoshaphat saw the Lord fight with them against the children of Ammon, becoming our salvation (2 Chronicles 20:17).

    David then prophesied that the Lord would become our salvation (Psalms 118:14-21), in the form of the Chief Corner Stone that the builders reject (Isaiah 52:16).

    Isaiah sees the Lord becoming our salvation (Isaiah 12:2), and expounds on it, creating the Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 28:9-21 - Rumor to Rumor).

    Isaiah 52:10 - Isaiah 53:1 'arm' of the Lord acts as a header... Isaiah 52:13-14 paraphrased David becoming the vessel of the Lord's salvation in Psalms 89:19-21.

    According to the Tanakh most of the commentaries (Isaiah 29:9-14), and conclusions are from eisegesis (Isaiah 56:10-12); where only the Messiah can explain it properly (Jeremiah 23, Ezekiel 34).

    Next prophetically is Armageddon, if it isn't a spiritual battle everyone could vastly help us with; it will be WW3 soon, and after God just keeps the Enlightened Saints who've already understood the Marvelous Work.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Isaiah's bed of adultery is just Israel's idolatry.
     
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  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And that's fine as an opinion, but... :shrug:

    Also, just a reminder that there are numerous messiahs mentioned in the Tanakh, plus you might want to reread the last chapter in Isaiah carefully.
     
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