How is a giant billboard promoting atheism not proselytizing?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree, they aren't extremely different.
But @1137 seems to think there's a difference that is important.
Tom

At least in this case, I think the difference is important, too.

When I first saw the billboard, I thought it was obvious that they were reaching out to people who were already atheists; some of the reactions in this thread make me realize that some people see it differently.

So I guess there are two interpretations of the billboard's message:

"Hey, atheists! You don't have to be so unhappy. We can help you!" - not proselytizing

Or...

"Hey, theists! Being an atheist in Nebraska is awesome! Become one!" - proselytizing (sorta)

I think the first interpretation is the most obvious, but I realize that accepting it can mean confronting some uncomfortable truths for the typical theist who sees it while driving by:

- atheists exist in your community... in numbers large enough to make a billboard worthwhile.
- the religious establishment that you're part of is making those atheists unhappy.

On top of that, those who feel more tolerant and welcoming than the average adherent of their religion have to recognize something else as well: these closeted atheists that they know and interact with don't feel comfortable or safe enough to come out to them.

It's difficult and uncomfortable for someone to admit "yes, the religion I love is making people I care about miserable and yes, I may very well be contributing to the problem personally."

It's ridiculous to think that Nebraska atheists really think that the best way for Nebraska Christians to get "the good life" is to stop being Christian -and alienate themselves from Christians in the process - in a place where Christians control most of the jobs, business opportunities, political opportunities etc. ... but this idea may be easier to swallow than the uncomfortable alternative.

That's how I see it, anyhow.

 

[viole]

Majority rules. That's America. If atheists are in the majority this sign stays up and religious signs will come down. It's just the way it is.

Well, that does not seem to be confirmed by evidence.

I come from a place where atheism is majority. I can confirm that nobody cares if you expose a religious sign. I see sometimes posters in Scandinavia, from some tiny group of Jesus fundamentalist, staying there for months. Nobody cares, really. It activates the same animosity as warning against UFOs or advertising the imminent return of Thor.

So, the question is why those Christians in Nebraska were so upset.

Ciao

- viole

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If it was solely aimed at increasing attendance at meetings it would be more direct and wouldn't rely on a secondary action (visiting the website) before getting its key message across.

Why wouldn't you expect an organization who's trying to get people to their meetings to direct people to their website?

I'm on the executive for a couple of groups (not atheist groups - more broadly community focused) that do just that. We do it for a few reasons:

- It's easier for someone passing by to remember a short, meaningful URL than a long blurb with an address and a meeting time.

- if you put specific details on an ad and those details change (e.g. you have to move to a new meeting venue), suddenly there's a whole bunch of obsolete information still circulating in the community.

 

[Augustus]

Why wouldn't you expect an organization who's trying to get people to their meetings to direct people to their website?

I specifically said that was one of the purposes of the advert.

Why don't adverts hide their key messages (outside of 'teaser' adverts) on external sites? Because it is incredibly inefficient. You need to create a reason to drive an action. You don't surprise them with it later because most people won't ever visit the website.

I'm on the executive for a couple of groups (not atheist groups - more broadly community focused) that do just that. We do it for a few reasons:

- It's easier for someone passing by to remember a short, meaningful URL than a long blurb with an address and a meeting time.

- if you put specific details on an ad and those details change (e.g. you have to move to a new meeting venue), suddenly there's a whole bunch of obsolete information still circulating in the community.

It doesn't need to be specific re time and date, it needs to get a key message across that there is a community and that people who wish to join it can find more details online.

The ad has a message on there as well as the URL what does that message say?

A message aimed at lonely atheists would be along the lines of 'don't feel alone' Even something like 'Join our community at www...' instead of 'visit our website'. You would write a direct message if that was your core purpose.

That message is written to create a 'wedge of doubt' which is the correct way to attempt to persuade people who are not already of that belief. It is not a message written with the core purpose of saying 'come join our community' (unless it was written by someone who is completely incompetent).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It doesn't need to be specific re time and date, it needs to get a key message across that there is a community and that people who wish to join it can find more details online.

The ad has a message on there as well as the URL what does that message say?

A message aimed at lonely atheists would be along the lines of 'don't feel alone' Even something like 'Join our community at www...' instead of 'visit our website'. You would write a direct message if that was your core purpose.

That message is written to create a 'wedge of doubt' which is the correct way to attempt to persuade people who are not already of that belief. It is not a message written with the core purpose of saying 'come join our community' (unless it was written by someone who is completely incompetent).

The general rule of thumb is that a billboard should have about 7 words. This one was already pushing the limit at 11. You think that the fact it wasn't more wordy means it was designed by someone "incompetent"?

 

[Augustus]

The general rule of thumb is that a billboard should have about 7 words. This one was already pushing the limit at 11. You think that the fact it wasn't more wordy means it was designed by someone "incompetent"?

Errr, that's not even remotely close to what I said.

What I said was IF the primary purpose of that message was to reach out to lonely atheists, then it is incompetent.

As I explained, I don't believe that was the primary purpose so I wasn't saying they are incompetent and I mentioned nothing about making it more wordy. Other than that you were quite close though

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Errr, that's not even remotely close to what I said.

What I said was IF the primary purpose of that message was to reach out to lonely atheists, then it is incompetent.

As I explained, I don't believe that was the primary purpose so I wasn't saying they are incompetent and I mentioned nothing about making it more wordy. Other than that you were quite close though

So you think it's more plausible that the billboard is an attempt by atheists to tell theists that their lives will be better if they become atheists?

Do you actually consider this more plausible?

 

[suncowiam]

So you think it's more plausible that the billboard is an attempt by atheists to tell theists that their lives will be better if they become atheists?

Do you actually consider this more plausible?

That's what I understood of the sign.

Atheists do not need protection. Like someone else put it, they are like stray cats in an alley way.

Homosexuals, transexuals need protection.

Atheists do not need more atheists to unite.

We do need more religioners to understand that it is definitely ok not to believe in imaginary beings along with their imaginary rules. I wouldn't call this conversion either. They wouldn't be part of my club if they did. They would be another stranger to me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's what I understood of the sign.

So you think that atheists in Lincoln, Nebraska believe that, all else being equal, atheists in Lincoln have an easier time than Christians?

Really?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So many groups, but are they groups that actually meet?!

Yes. There are a number of atheist and secular groups that meet.

That's not what the advertisement was though. It is not purely an informational advertisement, it is a persuasive one (think about our message and visit our site).

You also have to consider context. RF definitely has Liberal and general Left-winged slant, but even here we'll still see a number of Christians who do truly believe that without religion, without god, life has no meaning, no purpose, no morality, and it just isn't good. IRL, you can see it upsets people far more clearly than you can over an online forum. That billboard wasn't going to persuade anyone of anything. But neither would something like "Are you homosexual? You're not an abomination." And the same conservatives who got upset over the good life without god would get upset over that, but yet homosexuals would know there are those in their geological community who stand with and support them. Pretty much why I said the good life billboard is more of a response. Conservative Christians do often believe you have to have god and Jesus in your life for it to be good. This billboard offers no supporting points to persuade, but what it is doing is saying "no you don't."

 

[suncowiam]

So you think that atheists in Lincoln, Nebraska believe that, all else being equal, atheists in Lincoln have an easier time than Christians?

Really?

Maybe I'm being very naive, but atheists in US are not endangered. They have as much rights as theists. Given this was a business decision, they will have to get more creative in their choices to get their ideals across if that is what they want. The community might shun them but this is a far cry from actual prosecution or physical harm as say an atheist in the middle east or deep in ISIS.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe I'm being very naive, but atheists in US are not endangered. They have as much rights as theists. Given this was a business decision, they will have to get more creative in their choices to get their ideals across if that is what they want. The community might shun them but this is a far cry from actual prosecution or physical harm as say an atheist in the middle east or deep in ISIS.

"Victim olympics" is never a good sport to play. The very fact these Christians were very willing to take out their anger on an innocent bystander shows how much intolerance they have towards atheists. We don't consider them terrorists like Saudi Arabia, but some here claim they are not citizens, bombard them with microaggressions, and treat them like they're less than second-class citizens.

 

[whirlingmerc]

The billboard I'm taking about can be found in the article below. I don't care so much about it being taken down or not, but rather I'm curious how such a billboard is not proselytizing?

Nebraska Atheist Billboard Promoting “The Good Life Without God” Comes Down Following Complaints

Of course it is.
It's a semantical game atheists play that they or not a religious world view so they can get government to fund secular views of theirs while blocking others.... am I wrong?

 

[Augustus]

So you think it's more plausible that the billboard is an attempt by atheists to tell theists that their lives will be better if they become atheists?

Do you actually consider this more plausible?

It's aiming to get people to reconsider their perspectives on atheism: you can be a moral and an atheist.

 

[Augustus]

Pretty much why I said the good life billboard is more of a response. Conservative Christians do often believe you have to have god and Jesus in your life for it to be good. This billboard offers no supporting points to persuade, but what it is doing is saying "no you don't."

I agree.

The purpose of indirect approaches to persuasion is to first get someone to question their initial belief: atheist are immoral.

People who are intrigued by the message can then go to the website for further information or decide to find out more about it themselves.

People rarely change their minds directly, it is a process that starts with creating doubt.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's aiming to get people to reconsider their perspectives on atheism: you can be a moral and an atheist.

Why would you interpret "the good life" to be referring to moral goodness? That's not usually how the phrase is used.

 

[columbus]

It's aiming to get people to reconsider their perspectives on atheism: you can be a moral and an atheist.

I think people are way overthinking this sign.
It's a blanket invitation to join a tiny little group. They don't even have a place. They meet at the library and a couple of local cafes. I expect it's all rather "subject to change ".
It's just a simple sign with a simple message intended to catch the attention of like minded folks. Which are relatively few and far between in Nebraska.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People who are intrigued by the message can then go to the website for further information or decide to find out more about it themselves.

The only ones intrigued will be those who agree, and those willing to cause collateral damage over their childish tantrums.

 

[Augustus]

Why would you interpret "the good life" to be referring to moral goodness? That's not usually how the phrase is used.

Because of the context.

 

[columbus]

Because of the context.

Maybe where you live that would be a reasonable interpretation. But here it seems obvious to me that it's referring to organized community and fellowship.
Tom